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Stooka1903
12-01-2014, 11:06 AM
Earlier in the season I agreed that due his performance Vernon should be in ahead of Zola.

Again mostly due to the fact every time Vernon came on as a sub he played his heart oot and won almost everything and even popped up with a few goals.

It seems after about 5 games starting on the bounce he has became complacent, maybe just having a bad spell but he is not giving much to the people around him as he should.

He doesnt move when he is off the ball. He stands in between the two centre halfs and must be the easiest striker to mark.
If he won all the headers and took all the balls down it wouldn't be a problem.
At Killie and Hibs he hasn't won as much as he should for a big loon.
Off the ball Zola moves to a side taking 2 sometimes 3 men with him. Which gives players like McGinn, Pawlett etc more space to run into. Because the last 4 games McGinn has been a shaddow of the real him and he seems closed up on the wing with nowhere to go.
He needs the striker to take the defenders awa

OleOle
12-01-2014, 11:21 AM
Neither of the useless chunts. You can add Magennis to that as well if you like.

TedHankey
12-01-2014, 11:23 AM
Vernon has been great this season.

Zola will be leaving the club, hopefully.

One of the few mistakes the manager has made in his short time at the football club.

RicoS321
12-01-2014, 11:27 AM
I reckon if you checked the statistics you'd see Vernon does 5 times as much running as Zola. He's not hitting the back of the net at the moment, but then he's not getting much on a plate. Second half yesterday aside, Vernon is always very willing to make the run out wide to take the long ball. In fact, I think you've got the two players entirely mixed up. I've rarely seen Zola move more than five yards either way, and when he does it takes a short while.

I'm not saying Vernon is the answer, but Zola is barely a footballer. Zola's answer to "making space" for other players is to remain in roughly the same place all the time so that they know where he is going to be and avoid him. I've never seen him make a run into the wing to allow space through the centre; probably cause it would take him too long to get back in to position.

Also, I think Vernon suffers from McGinn's unpredictability. McGinn is a very greedy player and holds onto the ball for too long at times. Vernon's main goalsc

Stooka1903
12-01-2014, 11:42 AM
[quote="RicoS321"]I reckon if you checked the statistics you'd see Vernon does 5 times as much running as Zola. He's not hitting the back of the net at the moment, but then he's not getting much on a plate. Second half yesterday aside, Vernon is always very willing to make the run out wide to take the long ball. In fact, I think you've got the two players entirely mixed up. I've rarely seen Zola move more than five yards either way, and when he does it takes a short while.

I'm not saying Vernon is the answer, but Zola is barely a footballer. Zola's answer to "making space" for other players is to remain in roughly the same place all the time so that they know where he is going to be and avoid him. I've never seen him make a run into the wing to allow space through the centre; probably cause it would take him too long to get back in to position.

Also, I think Vernon suffers from McGinn's unpredictability. McGinn is a very greedy player and holds onto the ba

thestooge
12-01-2014, 11:59 AM
Vernon is the best option we have at present.

I'd not be surprised if Zola left this window.

Magennis is on a very shoogly peg. Hasn't really progressed this season at all.

Vernon isn't the long term solution and I'd like us to get another striker in the summer.

I canna see Goodwillie fulfilling this role either mind, and I'd not prefer him to McGinn or Pawlett either.

boaby81
12-01-2014, 12:20 PM
Vernon by miles. Zola is sh!te, Vernon is decent.

theoninedog
12-01-2014, 12:25 PM
Both along with Josher offer little.

Good at perhaps holding the ball up now and again, but then that's where it all ends.

We have players in the team now that can provide quality service, unfortunately we don't have a striker (McGinn excluded) who have any form of intelligence to provide an end product.

We need at the very least a half decent striker who has an eye for goal.
That's where Goodwillie could come into play.

05car
12-01-2014, 12:26 PM
Vernon's workrate on Friday night was impressive, he isn't suited to being a lone striker but puts in a hard shift.

It's easy to criticise but if not for a hand ball he's surely scoring in that game and people have a different view today.

Small margins...

Tubilay
12-01-2014, 12:38 PM
Vernon is a far superior footballer. He's that bit better at passing the ball, significantly sharper in the box and is loads more intelligent with his use of the ball. He's missed a few easy ones, but I don't think anyone can honestly say he's been poor in recent weeks, in spite of the lack of goals.

This system is generally going to require the goals are shared around. It's about movement and offering for the ball. By the very nature of that system the main striker isn't always going to be the one who finishes things.

It's hard to comment on Magennis, because he's played so few minutes. Zola does add physical presence, but the lack of mobility means he's not especially capable of using it.

Jock_Hawk
12-01-2014, 12:39 PM
I'm going to argue for Josher, for a few reasons:

1. Both Vernon and Zola turn back with the ball whenever they get it into feet. Vernon is the worst for this. Maybe this is because they almost always have a defender at their backs, but even when they don't, they don't have the willingness, drive or confidence to run forward with the ball. Josher does.

2. They also don't have the pace. There were a few times on Friday we could've played a ball over the top, and Vernon was looking for it, but we chose not to, knowing he wouldn't get there. We struggle to break teams down at home, and need to be less predictable in attack, playing balls over the top as well as into feet.

3. Josher can also play with his back to goal. Although he's slightly shorter than Zola, he has a far better leap, and he's also stronger than Vernon.

sancho_panza
12-01-2014, 02:07 PM
I thought Vernon did reasonably well against Hibs and won his fair share of long balls. We know all three of them aren't very good, but Vernon is the least bad in my opinion - he has some modicum of finishing ability, knows what he's doing, and is probably the best at retaining possession.

His movement in the penalty area is a little bit poor at times, but the other two have such glaring holes in their game that he's the best we've got.

AddisonDeWitt
12-01-2014, 02:15 PM
Main difference for me is I've seen enough of Vernon to be in no doubt about what I think of him. He's got a first-rate professional attitude and seems a very likeable guy. On form he has undoubtedly got his qualities as a player. But he's not a target man, he's not good with his back to goal, and he lacks the pace you need to trouble defenders. It's hard to see how he can be an effective striker in the modern game.

In his first couple of seasons he (just about) made up for his failings by taking a decent percentage of the good chances that fell to him. But he seems to have lost that quality over the past couple of seasons as well as revealing that he is mentally a bit fragile.

Vernon isn't good enough to play for Aberdeen if we have ambitions to be as good as we can be. He's not a good player to have on the bench as his confidence plummets if he isn't getting picked. A parting of the ways would be good for both parties.

With Zola I still have a feeling we haven't seen the bes

capitalred
12-01-2014, 02:26 PM
Zola should be playing for Montrose

Tenerifered
12-01-2014, 02:39 PM
Vernon by miles. Zola is sh!te, Vernon is decent.


This

torry_battery_ram
12-01-2014, 03:49 PM
Vernon is better than Zola, I just don't think our formation at Pittodrie is the best for Vernon, his performance up at Inverness just before Christmas was miles better than anything Zola has produced so far this season.

sancho_panza
12-01-2014, 04:29 PM
With Zola I still have a feeling we haven't seen the best of him. Unlike Vernon his role is pretty orthodox. He's a big guy who bothers defenders and can hold up the ball with his back to goal and lay it off. He's cumbersome and that always colours the perception of some fans more than it should. But he hasn't scored enough goals or made a regular enough contribution to justify his place and it's no surprise he's been dropped. Again, a parting of the ways would probably suit both parties, but just on my sense that there's probably a better player in there than we've seen so far, if I had to pick one to keep between him and Vernon I'd take a gamble on Zola.

Can see what you're saying, but on the other hand McInnes is seeing them play every day so probably has plenty of evidence to go on in selecting Vernon. For us Zola is a bit of an unknown because we haven't seen him in that many games, but that's not really the case for

OhioRed
12-01-2014, 06:13 PM
I see both sides of this arguement. For me Vernon is a strong determined player, who lacks pace and has a very poor first touch usually. He cannot hold the ball up normally, and though willing, lacks vision. He is a very inaccurate striker who usually fires wide. I suspect most of his goals are "percentage strikes". If you stand in front of the goal and hit the ball towards it often enough sooner or later it is going to go in. That may be harsh but unfortunately it's how it looks to me.

Zola is big, cumbersome, completely lacking in pace, and has very slow reactions. He mainly seems to play with his back to goal and in most games doesn't have any shots on goal. He does however hold the ball up well, he can pass and makes layoffs usually to the right player. He has a lot of physical presence and does tie up a couple of defenders whenever he is involved in the action, which is not often enough in most games. He is not really a goal scorer in my opinion, although he does know where the n

gogs1958
12-01-2014, 06:27 PM
Goodwillie.:D

Girniedon
12-01-2014, 07:36 PM
A fairly accurate resume Ohio - apart from the bit about Vernon being "strong...".
He is "powder-puff" and too easily bossed by defenders. When he does win a header it is usually backwards/forward to the opposing goalie or defender.
He does work hard, but achieves little. And hasn't a strong or decent shot in him.
Not good enough and time to get rid. We are moving forward and all 3 current strikers are not the standard we now require.

B) B)

Tubilay
13-01-2014, 01:16 AM
Some folk watch a totally different game to me.

The Hibs match was the least effective that Vernon's been in a few weeks, but that wasn't down to a lack of effort, or any poor touches, it was to do with the fact he was well marked by Paul Hanlon, who is always going to win most aerial battles.

The criticism about him always playing the ball backwards doesn't ring especially true, because that's one of the roles of the lone striker. If we could find a lone striker that can bring the ball down, turn and attack the defence, he'd be worth millions. I'm not sure there is a player like this in the whole of Scotland.

It's plain to see that Zola hasn't worked out as well as the management had planned. He's awkward, and when he's got his back to goal he's very difficult to take the ball from. But it's no use being 6ft 4 if you can't get two inches off the ground.

Vernon is a better footballer, and while we can certainly find an upgrade, he's easily the best option at the moment.

ArildsHair
13-01-2014, 04:52 AM
Zola's been a terrible disappointment. Canna jump, canna run, canna score. OK, he can hold up the ball and lay it off, and he has the strength to hold off a man - but he doesn't seem to have a goal in him.

Josher - remains a headless chicken. Just hasn't progressed at all - in fact now when he comes on, he's anonymous.

Scotty - unlike Zola, he Can jump, can run and can score - when balls are played early into the box. Scotty has been used to hold up the ball and lay it off - which he's been doing to good effect, but he's been given few decent opportunities to score. The point made about Niall's style is valid - he likes to hold the ball, try to beat defenders and play a late ball into the box. Scotty was most successful when he had Kwissy alongside him. For all his faults, he would put an early ball across the 6 yard box and Scotty would pick them off.

I personally would dump Josher, try to get rid of Zola ASAP and go with Vernon. If this allows the rest of the team to chip in with

AddisonDeWitt
13-01-2014, 02:03 PM
With Zola I still have a feeling we haven't seen the best of him. Unlike Vernon his role is pretty orthodox. He's a big guy who bothers defenders and can hold up the ball with his back to goal and lay it off. He's cumbersome and that always colours the perception of some fans more than it should. But he hasn't scored enough goals or made a regular enough contribution to justify his place and it's no surprise he's been dropped. Again, a parting of the ways would probably suit both parties, but just on my sense that there's probably a better player in there than we've seen so far, if I had to pick one to keep between him and Vernon I'd take a gamble on Zola.

Can see what you're saying, but on the other hand McInnes is seeing them play every day so probably has plenty of evidence to go on in selecting Vernon. For us Zola is a bit of an unknown because we haven't seen him in t

Hewitt_Scores
13-01-2014, 03:31 PM
[quote="ArildsHair"]Zola's been a terrible disappointment. Canna jump, canna run, canna score. OK, he can hold up the ball and lay it off, and he has the strength to hold off a man - but he doesn't seem to have a goal in him.

Josher - remains a headless chicken. Just hasn't progressed at all - in fact now when he comes on, he's anonymous.

Scotty - unlike Zola, he Can jump, can run and can score - when balls are played early into the box. Scotty has been used to hold up the ball and lay it off - which he's been doing to good effect, but he's been given few decent opportunities to score. The point made about Niall's style is valid - he likes to hold the ball, try to beat defenders and play a late ball into the box. Scotty was most successful when he had Kwissy alongside him. For all his faults, he would put an early ball across the 6 yard box and Scotty would pick them off.

I personally would dump Josher, try to get rid of Zola ASAP and go with Vernon. If

peter_ssb
13-01-2014, 03:51 PM
Agree with this, Vernon has his faults, but is the best of the 3.

Sorry but for me Vernon is and always will be a bottom 6 player. When were were 8th or 9th he was ok

If we have aspirations for 2nd place Vernon is not the man

Dec123Red
13-01-2014, 03:52 PM
[quote="OhioRed". If you stand in front of the goal and hit the ball towards it often enough sooner or later it is going to go in. That may be harsh but unfortunately it's how it looks to me.[/quote]

Unfortunately this is pretty accurate, Vernon is a striker that is rubbish at basically everything you'd look for in a striker.

Why we haven't been playing McGinn through the middle and putting Wylde or someone else out wide I don't know, we keep discussing these three as our only striking options when the best striker we've had in years is stuck out wide where he looks half the player he was last season.

irnbru1903
18-01-2014, 05:10 PM
We really need a striker now who actually poses a threat to the opposition goal. McGinn was for a while but has had a huge dip in form. That means we are now toothless up front. Getting rid of Magennis, Zola or Vernon will make no difference to our team but getting one half decent striker to replace the lot of them just might.

Dec123Red
18-01-2014, 05:13 PM
. McGinn was for a while but has had a huge dip in form. That means we are now toothless up front.

Because he's playing wide left where to be perfectly honest he's sh*t. Play him upfront he'll score goals. The other three are all as bad as each other.

EintrachtFrankfurt
18-01-2014, 05:14 PM
neither get rid.

OhioRed
18-01-2014, 05:25 PM
. McGinn was for a while but has had a huge dip in form. That means we are now toothless up front.

Because he's playing wide left where to be perfectly honest he's sh*t. Play him upfront he'll score goals. The other three are all as bad as each other.[/quote]

Wish I could agree with you, but McGinn is nowhere near top form. When on form even the shots that don't go in are mostly on target. Now he is firing wide or over all the time. He isn't getting them on target no matter where he is relative to goal at the time. he isn't even getting the ball on target from dead ball situations. So playing him through the middle won't make any difference just now as far as I can see.

That said if it gets Vernon off the pitch I am in favour. Vernon's first touch is normally into nowhere, and that's on the comparatively rare occasions when he has a first touch. He has only marginally more shots on

jackdon
18-01-2014, 06:00 PM
Neither.

milne_afc
18-01-2014, 06:04 PM
Vernon is a blouse.

Neither player is good enough.

pieandbovrilman
18-01-2014, 06:06 PM
. McGinn was for a while but has had a huge dip in form. That means we are now toothless up front.

Because he's playing wide left where to be perfectly honest he's sh*t. Play him upfront he'll score goals. The other three are all as bad as each other.[/quote]

Wish I could agree with you, but McGinn is nowhere near top form. When on form even the shots that don't go in are mostly on target. Now he is firing wide or over all the time. He isn't getting them on target no matter where he is relative to goal at the time. he isn't even getting the ball on target from dead ball situations. So playing him through the middle won't make any difference just now as far as I can see.

That said if it gets Vernon off the pitch I am in favour. Vernon's first touch is normally into nowhere, and that's on the comparatively rare occasions when he has a firs

redordead72
18-01-2014, 06:09 PM
If we insist on pumping it long at 0-1 then Zola is by far the best option

xtrmntr75
18-01-2014, 06:12 PM
Good post Stuka.

Inclined to agree with Ole though. We need something different

RedStarTorphins
18-01-2014, 06:17 PM
I've said it in another thread, but you couldn't make a decent no.9 out of Zola, Magennis & Vernon.

Ideally we'll be shot of all 3 by the summer, albeit tricky with Zola as he'll be under contract.

We need a new striker now, not waiting until the summer.

I get the feeling we'll see Zola back in for Fir Park next week.

McGinn needs to get more involved and not be rigidly stuck wide left.
Him & Pawlett should interchange more in my opinion.

The full backs are also a problem.

Rather than put square pegs like Tate at RB, can't we give Murray a chance?
Can't be worse than what we saw today.

And if Ainsworth is up against Considine next week, he'll skip past him every single time.