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Fretters
04-04-2014, 02:18 PM
We seem to have had a few of the dreaded cruciate injury over the last few years - Thomas, Duff, Coyne, Berisha, Ings (not sure about that one, but didn't he do both knees?) and now Vokesy. The good news is that all those players returned to continue their careers.

Whose was it that 'magically' reattached itself enabling him to come back much sooner? Duff or Thomas I think. I'm sure Duffo will have his arm round Vokes throughout his road to recovery.

cdav
04-04-2014, 04:59 PM
Fretters: I have asked this also about Ings' knee injuries this week. Yes he definitely did opposite knees in pre-seasons, and yes the recovery periods would also indicate ACL injuries, but I don't remember the answer.

I was trying to be positive about Sam's. Surely if Ings can come back and give us a season like this one, then Sam could do the same.

ClaretTony2014
04-04-2014, 05:00 PM
"Yes he definitely did opposite knees in pre-seasons, and yes the recovery periods would also indicate ACL injuries, but I don't remember the answer."


They certainly don't indicate ACL injuries.

2011/12 - out from August to January
2012/13 - out from August to October


Had either of those been an ACL he wouldn't have had any chance of playing until the following season.

2011/12 injury was cartilage, not sure of second but he came on as a sub in October at Bristol City so was nothing serious.

claretspice
04-04-2014, 05:03 PM
"Had either of those been an ACL he wouldn't have had any chance of playing until the following season."

Not sure that's the case these days Tony.

ClaretTony2014
04-04-2014, 05:05 PM
It is very much the case - Danny Webber, now Accy, has just recovered from one. He has warned not to attempt playing for 9 months and has said it takes 2 years to recover fully.

But whatever, Ings has not suffered a cruciate.

cdav
04-04-2014, 05:08 PM
I stand corrected Tony.
Crikey was that first one only 6-months, It seemed like almost a full season at the time.

fats
04-04-2014, 05:12 PM
What happened to the player we had on loan from Sunderland in the Fulham cup tie in 2009, cant remember his, didnt he have a similar injury. Did he make a full recovery

KeighleyClaret
04-04-2014, 05:14 PM
It was Wayne Thomas whose ACL reattached. It does so in a minority of cases but it isn't miraculous, just lucky.

Didn't set the Turf on fore afterwards though, always wondered if he might have been better if he'd had surgery.

claretspice
04-04-2014, 05:16 PM
"Danny Webber, now Accy, has just recovered from one. He has warned not to attempt playing for 9 months and has said it takes 2 years to recover fully".

I'm no medic, but my understanding is that each case is different and that days of it automatically taking more 12 months plus to heal are gone. Its possible that if the operation is straightforward, a recovery can be made in approximately 4-6 months in some cases. A friend of mine has actually just done precisely that and he plays rugby, which is more physical. I think Walcott has been quoted around 6 months.

barracuda
04-04-2014, 05:20 PM
The one to Berisha was catastrophic for us

sheffieldturfite
04-04-2014, 05:24 PM
It was actually Duff whose cruciate reattached itself. I suppose the key bit is whether the ligament is still in one piece and has pulled off the femur, or whether it is been ripped in two down the middle, which would seem impossible to mend without surgery.

Probably another factor is whether the tear is a partial one or a complete one.

I'd imagine on that basis it's impossible to speculate on how long anyone would be out. - view external link (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/2074789.duff_i_feared_injury_had_ended_my_career/)

JohnMcGreal
04-04-2014, 05:28 PM
Am I right in thinking Danny Ings injured his knee during his very first training session with us, in August 2011?

Must have been ligament damage of sort, but not necessarily an ACL .

fats - are you thinking of Russel Anderson? We had him on loan in our promotion season, and he suffered a bad injury. I think we ended up bringing in Rhys Williams on loan around January to replace him.

ClaretTony2014
04-04-2014, 05:29 PM
"It was Wayne Thomas whose ACL reattached. It does so in a minority of cases but it isn't miraculous, just lucky."


It did, and saw him through his time at Burnley, but then he eventually had to have the surgery when at Southampton.

ClaretTony2014
04-04-2014, 05:30 PM
"Am I right in thinking Danny Ings injured his knee during his very first training session with us, in August 2011?

Must have been ligament damage of sort, but not necessarily an ACL ."



As said above, it was a cartilage injury that kept him out until January.

The one in the next season was sustained in a pre-season game at Rochdale at beginning of August and he was back by mid-October.

ClaretTony2014
04-04-2014, 05:32 PM
"What happened to the player we had on loan from Sunderland in the Fulham cup tie in 2009, cant remember his, didnt he have a similar injury. Did he make a full recovery"


Russell Anderson - eventually left Sunderland for Derby and is now back with his first club Aberdeen and still playing regularly for them at 35.

Fretters
04-04-2014, 06:00 PM
"It was Wayne Thomas whose ACL reattached. It does so in a minority of cases but it isn't miraculous, just lucky."


"It did, and saw him through his time at Burnley, but then he eventually had to have the surgery when at Southampton."

That Telegraph link suggests it was Duff whose ligament reattached, or did it happen for both players?

DownUnderClaret
04-04-2014, 11:42 PM
Thought some of you may be interested in this article by Dr. Peter Larkin , he's one of the most senior medical people involved in treating injuries to AFL players. This article concentrates on ACL injuries. - view external link (http://www.drpeterlarkins.com/2012/03/lars-ligament-surgery-why-all-the-fuss/)

GRAPIDIANCLARET
04-04-2014, 11:53 PM
ACLs do not repair themselves.
Re-attachment might be different.
However,it is possible to strengthen muscles and compensate, temporarily for the ACL.
I have had both ACLs replaced through playing rugby, both non contact incidents.
After the first ACL tear I was in good shape, had strong knees and muscle mass in my legs and was running a lot after the initial injury.
I had no problem running, training etc,but when I turned in a certain way when walking I would find myself staring at the sky. Rehab from the first surgery lasted 14 months back in 2006.
My first game back was back at my old club Burnley RUFC, I lasted 76 minutes and tore my other ACL.
Life's a bitch

KeighleyClaret
05-04-2014, 01:14 PM
Definitely happened for Wayne Thomas, there was a lot about it in the press at the time. Don't know about Duff.

ACL repair is relatively new, it wasn't around for Brian Clough or even Steve Coppell and was a career ending injury then.

The technique is improving all the time, as is the rehab, the most important thing is having it done by someone who does loads and does them on sportspeople - these people live by their reputation.