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andyh
17-08-2014, 09:14 AM
I chatted with Brian out here in Portugal last night. Still seems a bit bitter and says "Dychey will find out how impossible the jobis this season".

He is out here for another few weeks. Agent keeping him up to date with any vacancies. Makes you wonder whether he wrote his own application for the Burnley job.

Having said that he does seems genuinely nice guy.

TuftyBeamish
17-08-2014, 09:17 AM
I've a feeling that Sean Dyche won't be hopelessly out of his depth managing Burnley in the Prem, unlike Brian who was also hopelessly out of his depth managing us in the division below.

CardyTheClaret
17-08-2014, 09:23 AM
Sounds like he'd be right at home on here.

andyh
17-08-2014, 09:25 AM
He said he thought he would have got us in the playoffs if they had stuck with him. I respectfully disagreed.

garfunkal
17-08-2014, 09:27 AM
Not as bitter as I was when he got the job

skiptonclaret
17-08-2014, 09:28 AM
Serves also to illustrate what a good job Eddie Howe did in transforming the creaky knee squad left by Laws, by getting rid of most of them and replacing with some exceptional young players.

Boliclaret
17-08-2014, 09:33 AM
"Dychey will find out how impossible the job is this season".

I'd have thought he'd hope we do well with Marney and Wallace still at the club. Maybe he's still a bit sore.

Laws and a 2 and a half year contract was irrefutably the worse thing the club did since appointing John Bond imo.

HollandsPies
17-08-2014, 09:37 AM
BL shouldn't feel too bitter as his gardening leave pay was very nice indeed.

andyh
17-08-2014, 09:40 AM
I think we should have done what spurs appear to have done last season and offer a to the end of the season plus option for following years. Fairly sure we would have not exercised the options. It was a bit of a hospital pass as far as jobs go. Looking at other clubs such as wolves you do wonder whether there is a sort of insanity that strikes boards of struggling premier league clubs.

BriscoCountyJr
17-08-2014, 09:56 AM
Said it elsewhere, but a decent guy with average talents who was offered his dream job in the worst possible circumstances. The Board should take as much, if not more blame for even offering it to him.

The way the club was after Judas left, I don't think any manager could have coped. Especially as any chances were sabotaged on the way out.

herts_clarets
17-08-2014, 10:00 AM
Said it the time, we should have gone for an out of work experienced manager on a 6 month contract with large bonus triggered by staying up. Would have given us Firstly half a chance of staying up and secondly bought the club time to recruit the right manager in the summer. Instead we ran up the white flag appointing Laws and then shot ourselves in the foot by giving him such a contract.

4everclaret
17-08-2014, 10:05 AM
It wasn't his fault, all he did was accept a job. Why should he have turned it down? It was the Boards fault for offering it to him, always the cheapest option.

ClaretMoffitt
17-08-2014, 10:08 AM
I did, and still do think he was always on to a loser with that job in 2010.

I do also think had we kept him until the end of the season we would have made play offs.

Still, alls well that ends well. For us at least.

frankinwales
17-08-2014, 10:08 AM
Don't see why he should be bitter...didn't he get a good failure pay off?



Up the Clarets...

Rowls
17-08-2014, 11:08 AM
Laws was a disaster. No doubt about it.

But he was given an impossible task. Very few would have done any better.

I don't blame Laws but he wasn't ever the right man for the job.

Why is he bitter? Perhaps because (despite his failings at the job) he is a man of integrity who would have preferred success to a large pay off?

TuftyBeamish
17-08-2014, 11:44 AM
A Picture speaks a Thousand Words...

http://i58.tinypic.com/35hjuis.jpg

enola_gay
17-08-2014, 11:49 AM
The way the club was after Judas left, I don't think any manager could have coped.

I did, and still do think he was always on to a loser with that job in 2010

But he was given an impossible task. Very few would have done any better

The 'impossible job' guff is still getting an airing, I see.

The job was undoubtedly very difficult. The idea that it was impossible just because someone as limited as Laws couldn't hack it smacks of utter nonsense.

oldcolner
17-08-2014, 12:12 PM
Brian seems to be a genuinely nice man and he has kept his dignity with no criticism of the club or fans. A colleague who is active in local football has known him for 20 years and says he is very helpful and puts him up from time to time.
He was also a stand out player for us for many years.
The board would have appointed him before Coyle so to appoint him afterwards was probably logical. As others say the circumstances were appalling, Coyle took everyone he could leaving a spartan support staff taking promised loanees like Wilsher with him only and two weeks to a transfer deadline to fill gaps created by the loss of the loanees. Coyle also seemed to unsettle some of our better players for god measure.
The fans share the blame for putting pressure on him on here and elsewhere
He did get a raw deal and left us in a better place than we finished. Perhaps those on CM who fit the claret moaners rather than claret madders title, need to remember their negativity is unhelpful and potential

Dejavu2014
17-08-2014, 12:16 PM
We should have got Stan back till the end of the season IMO. He would at least have had the goodwill of the fans.

oldcolner
17-08-2014, 04:27 PM
Deja
Maybe but for how long we will never know.
Laws was never given a chance .. At all. So we will never know what could have happened had got off his back or had we beaten Wigan and stayed up at their expense.

bfcjg
17-08-2014, 04:36 PM
Stan coming back for half a season would have been even worse. The defence he left us with was apalling, no top flight experience as amanager and he was not offered a contract when he left the club for obvious reasons as suggested a short term contract for an experienced managervwith a massive stay up bonus should have been on offer, horrendous boardroom mistake.

Akinbadbye_20
17-08-2014, 04:36 PM
Laws got suprisingly good support at the games in the Premier League but the performances were woeful.

Players were partly to blame for downing tools but to say it was impossible is ridiculous.

clareturion
17-08-2014, 04:42 PM
The fans share the blame for putting pressure on him on here and elsewhere


Well I'm sorry, but he took the ferkin job and takes the plaudits and / or brickbats dependent on his performance ( which was clueless ) along with a generous salary.


He did get a raw deal and left us in a better place than we finished.

WTF ????????????????????????


Perhaps those on CM who fit the claret moaners rather than claret madders title, need to remember their negativity is unhelpful and potentially demoralising, the last things that are needed in a crisis.

Sorry that's just bollox. In a crisis you need a good manager not a proven failure at a lower level, regardless of whether more or less people are on a messageboard moaning.

Jamb0MackemClaret
17-08-2014, 05:41 PM
Can't see why he would be bitter, no other club is going to be gormless enough to let him manage in the Premier League and spend 1.5m on Leon Cort.

He had his chance, he blew it. Frankly, he was lucky not to get sacked long before he did. He was completely inadequate.

I didn't agree with some of the personal abuse he took towards the end, but he was a terrible choice and performed predictably terribly.

mgill87
17-08-2014, 05:47 PM
I don't think it was an impossible task - I seem to remember us being in a decent enough position in the league though we had started to struggle towards the end of Coyle's time with us.

The board went with an option that they felt safe with - someone they felt they could trust. We can all be thankful that we have another shot at it.

LancasterClaret
17-08-2014, 05:49 PM
The only thing that was remotely positive about the reign is that we now have a very good idea about what not to do.

oldcolner
17-08-2014, 06:00 PM
Akin
He didn't get good support on here though. I didn't mention impossible and unsure what it is.

oldcolner
17-08-2014, 06:14 PM
Hi urion
Re WTF we were 6th when he left and ended up 12th

In a crisis even good managers can fail - Moyes at Man U van Gall at Barca and let's face it no one in that category was affordable or willing to come here at that time.
Have you ever started a new job under pressure to deliver in two weeks and no one else there to help and your workers partly revolting against you - get real.
No wonder he made some mistakes and didn't some people on here let him know it.
That's what is unhelpful to the manager, the team, the other supporters and the club. I wait in the fear some twerp posts a Dyche out thread if we lose our first few games.

merlin1
17-08-2014, 06:19 PM
Bit too soon to put up a picture of a heavy defeat and a bemused manager. We were always likely to go down and would have done with Coyle there.

poultonclaret
17-08-2014, 06:20 PM
he didn't get the support on here right enough because we knew he was crap. he made his mistakes [cort etc] not us.
however, the board made a monumental mistake in both hiring him and giving him a contract beyond season's end. just what were they thinking?

re :' The only thing that was remotely positive about the reign is that we now have a very good idea about what not to do'. very true; but unfortunately that's no guarantee the board won't make the same poor decision again ;D

socrates
17-08-2014, 06:22 PM
Very few would have done any better.


The way I see it, virtually all would have done a lot better.

That's not Brian Laws' fault though. He did what Brian Laws does - mediocre management, as his track record of 20 years or so showed.

I'm not surprised he was bitter. Apart from being bang average, one of the main reasons I didn't want him to take the job was because of his sniping asides whilst at S****horpe. I don't hold Stan up as paradigm of virtue, but one only needs to remember his words about us Stan references in his book.

cockneyclaret
17-08-2014, 06:27 PM
The board went with an option that they felt safe with - someone they felt they could trust.

Brilliant...XD XD XD XD

Nothing to do with how much money they didn't have to prize out of the rusty safe!!
(Safe with) the ultimate cheapest option

NottsClaret
17-08-2014, 06:50 PM
I'd nearly forgotten about old Easter Island head. Then his kept popping up this month as WBA's appointment of Irvine was described as their 'Brian Laws' moment in a couple of papers.

He's written himself into football folklore, I'll give him that.

mgill87
17-08-2014, 06:54 PM
"Brilliant...XD XD XD XD

Nothing to do with how much money they didn't have to prize out of the rusty safe!!
(Safe with) the ultimate cheapest option"

I'll try not to assume you're narrow-minded, but you're making it difficult with that comment.

Do you really believe that the board only hired Laws because he was the cheap option? Because it sounds like you've disagreed with what I've said but you haven't really made any point.

If the only thing they wanted was a cheap manager they could have hired me. I'd have done the job for next to nowt. I'm sure cost was a factor but let's not kid ourselves and pretend that it was the only one.

Darthlaw
17-08-2014, 06:56 PM
The biggest frustration for me revolves around the so called 'cheap option'.

Kilby confirmed that an 'experienced' PL manager showed an interest in the job however they wanted 1 million until the end of the season and 1 million if he kept us up. Kilby also said that they didnt want to offer this individual the job as the potential incumbent confirmed they would not stay beyond the end of the season either way.

So thats 1 million cost if they didnt keep us up or 2 million cost, offset by a further 30 million income of staying in the league for one more season.

Last I heard, Laws was paid in total 2.5 million compo plus the money he squandered on Cort, Iwelumpo and the stupid contracts for the likes of Jensen to get players 'onside'.

The cheap option.


As for the fact Laws had arguably the best budget of any Championship Burnley manager and still couldnt win two games back to back... That just confirmed how much of a mediocre manager he was.

clareturion
17-08-2014, 07:17 PM
oldcolner

Re WTF we were 6th when he left and ended up 12th

Ah now I understand where you were coming from with that particular comment. Just an unforgiveably bad decision from Kilby and Flood.

As for fans turning on Dyche. I would have thought he has built up a mountain of credit by delivering promotion, whereas Laws had been an embarrassment at Grimsby ( re the restaurant food slap ), a limited success at S****horpe and a downright failure at Sheff Wed.


My personal view would be a 2014-15 record of Played 38 Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 38 Points 0
would still earn Dyche 3 months into 2015-16.

blackburnturfite
17-08-2014, 08:08 PM
Laws does sound bitter,commenting on what Shaun Dyche is going to be up against,this coming season, almost as if he,s wishing the worst on our Club. But lets turn the clock back to the state Coyle left,Physio, Davies,etc.etc Totally left us bare,the Directors,Players, Fans Dejected,where was the man who could have given us inspiration? Shaun Dyche perhaps!!;D

sheffieldturfite
17-08-2014, 08:35 PM
Two things -

One, who is it that is acting the most bitter? Average Brian, when tarred as doing worse than almost anyone, was sacked when top half when other managers spend more and go down to League 1 nonetheless.

Two, can anyone a Premier League manager who has kept a side up in similar circumstances, I.e. Predecessor abandoned ship not sacked?

I have some sympathy.

oldcolner
17-08-2014, 08:45 PM
Blackburn
I'm sure he will be bitter in private conversation. Wouldn't you be. However He has not given the press the inside track or made life difficult for the club in the media. Maybe that's part of his payoff contract or maybe he is a gent or as a former player has some loyalty.
Perhaps Sam allardyce was around and willing for a fee, phil brown too. How would they have gone down with the fans.

oldcolner
17-08-2014, 09:06 PM
Sheffield
Brian was above average in the championship with players bought in a panic. Like Moyes he didn't get the time before the so called fans pressurised the directors.
I don't think anyone else has done a Coyle. Pulls has just left but he didn't take everyone on his management team or two key loan players.

the_quoon
17-08-2014, 09:14 PM
how's his canal jumping career going?

daveisaclaret
17-08-2014, 09:25 PM
"Brian was above average in the championship with players bought in a panic. Like Moyes he didn't get the time before the so called fans pressurised the directors."

So called fans?

Considering everything that has happened since we finally got rid of him, I think pressuring the directors (in my own tiny way) is the most positive thing I've ever done as a Burnley fan.

"Above average" is a good one as well. Massive budget, 8th in the league, couldn't win two on the bounce. We'd have been in real trouble with an average manager if he was above average.

sheffieldturfite
17-08-2014, 09:38 PM
Totally agree with Oldcolner apart from maybe taking the word "above" out of the post. There were still many sides with bigger budgets than us.

oldcolner
17-08-2014, 10:05 PM
Have checked my facts and when he left we were 9th having lost at home toS****horpe, but had one or two games in hand on most teams above us.
Eddie was hired around the same time in January and managed to move us up to 8 the at the end of the season.
In a league of 24 teams 12 would have been average so perhaps being pedantic he was above average. Given better circumstances Eddie was hardly able to make any impact again perhaps because of some players. Eddie is doing well at Bournemouth in different circumstances. We just don't know how good Laws might have been in better circumstances.
Having said my piece I wouldn't wish to change what has happened since he left. I just hope the directors, the players and the fans have learned the errors of their ways in the sorry saga and we don't make Sean feel anything but wanted and loved, whatever happens on the pitch.
Should he find himself wanted elsewhere, which of course he will be if we do well we need a succession plan, in case he doe

thewellernut70
17-08-2014, 10:40 PM
"Re WTF we were 6th when he left and ended up 12th"

I could have sworn we were in the PL when Laws took over and over halfway to safety on 20 points.

Also I see the old two games in hand comment when the sacking came.5 of the next 6 (or near as damn it) games were away from home,away where pathetically bad (there was also a motion to get rid of Laws after the abject display away at Coventry by a couple of board members,that fell by the wayside as the casting vote laid with he who shall not be criticised),throwing away leads(sometimes even two goal leads) became the norm that fateful season in the Championship

Swanson
17-08-2014, 11:12 PM
I know a few managers and coaches that know Brian Laws and they have less than positive things to say about him - pretty much echoing what Clarke Carlisle says in his book.

Poor match preparation, i.e. no scouting of the team you are playing so that you are aware of who you are playing, basic training, poor organisation and very simple style of football.

So glad we employed him to manage a premier league team when a few short years later he got sacked in league 2.

davidn
18-08-2014, 01:31 AM
Basically the Coyle situation was disgustingly unique and should never have been allowed to happen by the F.A.

Anything that happened after that should still be blamed on Coyle and no-one else as everyone else were just picking up the pieces.

I can't believe that wan*ker can look himself in the mirror for what he did and hardly anyone in the industry said a word against him at the time.

I think the worst i heard was Gary Linekar saying it was "hardly loyal".

It's hard to let that pain go but here we are in a much better place so go figure!

penfowd
18-08-2014, 07:57 AM
FAO OldColner... Van Gaal failed at Barca? 3 year at club & won 2 titles, 1 copa del ray & 1 UEFA super cup. Also credited with the emmergence of the likes of Cavi, Iniesta, Messi etc. team that dominated Europe for several seasons. Some failure!' His only 'failure' was to not arse lick the Spanish media, so just like Mourinho on that front.

LancasterClaret
18-08-2014, 08:41 AM
Welcome to the board Brian

the_quoon
18-08-2014, 09:15 AM
laws was crap.

oldcolner
18-08-2014, 10:18 AM
Hi penfowd
How about this then
Van Gaal returned to Barcelona for the start of the 200203 season on a contract until June 2005, but results were inconsistent. The club won a record-equalling ten successive matches in the Champions League but struggled in La Liga. After four wins, four draws and three defeats from their opening 11 league matches, Barcelona lost three matches in a row, to Real Sociedad, relegation-threatened Rayo Vallecano and Sevilla. Two wins and a draw improved things but after successive defeats to Valencia and Celta de Vigo, he left by mutual consent on 28 January 2003 with the club in 12th place, just three points above the relegation zone and 20 points behind leaders.

Sounds like a fail to me :D

oldcolner
18-08-2014, 10:32 AM
Swanson
You may be right, but when he started he had no one to do such things and no team to help analyse opposition. Coyle had wiped the place clean wrecked the plans for the future by taking players we were expecting etc.
He probably wouldn't have set the heather on fire, but players like Clark didn't do much to help him either. The team then was not a real team that played for each other and the manager to the last breath when they should have - unlike the situation now.

Van Gaals second spell at Barca was partly wrecked by player revolt notably Rivaldo who couldn't stand him.

Rileybobs
18-08-2014, 10:42 AM
He masterminded our first victory away from home in the top flight for over 30 years - legend.

thewellernut70
18-08-2014, 10:46 AM
...And the single highest half time deficit endured by any team in PL history

What a legend (or words to that effect >:) )

claretspice
18-08-2014, 11:30 AM
"I know a few managers and coaches that know Brian Laws and they have less than positive things to say about him - pretty much echoing what Clarke Carlisle says in his book."

Know someone who worked with him at one club who said he was nicknamed 'Mars Bar', on the basis he'd eat himself if he could.

Was always of the view that the candidates available when Coyle left may well not have been of a high standard, so perhaps appointing Laws to oversee the rest of that season was understandable.

Not having a unilateral break clause allowing us to sack him if we saw fit in the summer, and instead reportedly pegging it to a points tally which was never likely to be sufficient to keep us up, was incomprehensibly bizarre.

Its the sort of error which comes to mind whenever anyone says that folk on here should trust the board to get on with things without question because 'they know how to run a football club'.

penfowd
18-08-2014, 11:46 AM
FAO OLDCOLNER...

We can all copy & paste from Wikipedia... That was his short lived second spell but his first spell & overall he was very successfull... ''He moved to Barcelona in 1997, taking over from Bobby Robson, and helped the team win two league championships (199798, 199899) and the Copa del Rey once.[5] Despite this success, he clashed with the media and came under criticism. Van Gaal expressed that it was difficult to implement his football philosophy at Barcelona due to cultural differences, and that he struggled hard as some players were unwilling to follow his lead.[7] His rows with Rivaldo are an example of this: Van Gaal insisted Rivaldo play as a left winger, whereas Rivaldo argued that he wanted to play in the centre, in effect undermining van Gaal.[8]''

sheffieldturfite
18-08-2014, 12:11 PM
Nobody though has been able to the manager who has kept a Premier League side up in similar circumstances. So it's unrealistic to think a Laws alternative would have.

Similarly, back in the Championship, our odds for promotion would have been between 5-1 and 10-1 no matter who was manager, so it is odds on an alternative wouldn't have delivered then either.

And just think of all the Iwelemo and Cort jokes it would have denied us.

So, ultimately, while it is fun to bash average Brian, his tenure probably didn't affect us adversely, and as the Board have finally got it right within the four year parachute window, they deserve our praise, not scorn.

Darthlaw
18-08-2014, 12:21 PM
'his tenure probably didn't affect us adversely'

Brian Jensen - 'The best contract I ever had'

spunkybackpack21
18-08-2014, 12:24 PM
So, ultimately, while it is fun to bash average Brian, his tenure probably didn't affect us adversely

Good one.

LancasterClaret
18-08-2014, 12:33 PM
"probably didn't affect us adversely"

Thats up there with Hirohito and his surrender speech in 1945

"the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage"

oldcolner
18-08-2014, 12:44 PM
penfowd

well done
I suspect Bobby Robsons legacy was a significant factor in his initial success

Pity you didn't look at his second spell before posting first time then! ;D

penfowd
18-08-2014, 01:17 PM
Its a pity you didnt look at his 1st, more significant, spell before posting. His 2nd spell was only about 40odd games! ;D

oldcolner
18-08-2014, 03:42 PM
Hi Pen
I did, but my post was challenged about him failing so that's what you got - the reference to the big fail.
He also left his next job in Ajax as he fell out with his then boss Koeman so another fail. I'm not saying he's a failure as that's clearly not the case, but he has failed [twice]. Alex Ferguson failed for his first 4 years at United.
To succeed you often have to fail first, some just never gave Laws the chance to succeed without getting on his back almost from day 1.

daveisaclaret
18-08-2014, 03:46 PM
"To succeed you often have to fail first"

Laws is probably due a Champions League win by now then

essexred52
18-08-2014, 06:19 PM
Brian was a half decent right back for us during his Brian Clough days, i'm aware that he has put himself forward for the Forest job several times and failed, thankfully, i wish him all the best though.