View Full Version : Should Turf Moor be enlarged?

02-09-2014, 06:11 AM
Now we are in the Premier League .With new players together with our old squad ,definitely the game will improve . Being given that big city clubs will be accompanied by a large number of supporters and ours ever increasing ,should not we think of enlarging the capacity seats .
May be that this season it is too late ,but we remain in the EPL next season , management should think about it .

02-09-2014, 06:40 AM
It was good having two big games to open our account, both on TV and both 'Sold Out'. I still don't get the difference in attendance of around 500 though :?

Sadly I don't think the trend will continue throughout the season and very few of our remaining games will sell out so the any capacity increase would generally be unused.

I think the capacity is fine as it is but would like to see the Jimmy Mac Lower allocated to away fans and the CFS allocated to Home fans.

Unlike nearly every other club in the country though I think the Police (and the Club) want to keep Away supporters segregated as much as possible.

02-09-2014, 07:10 AM
in an ideal world if we stay up, add another tier to the bob lord doubling its size so holding 7000. Would take the capacity to 25000.

Then in the future new cricket field stand, single tiered like PNE, Purpose built to be split between home and away fans. New capacity 6000.

02-09-2014, 07:17 AM
It's a nice thought Dave but we need to become an established Prem club before making any changes to our ground capacity. It works fine right now IMHO.

02-09-2014, 07:42 AM
After spending millions? on the CFS I would hope that if we are to extend the ground it would be a second tier on the Bob Lord.

Last time we were in the Premier we had 10 gates of over 21,000 (once we'd sorted out the ticketing which I can only assume was what limited the previous gates) and that was with 1500(?) fewer away fans.

I cannot see any reason to have a capacity over 25,000 but a capacity of 24-25k could give us 2.3 - 3 million extra revenue for the season, that's like 10 retainers.

I seem to remember though CT saying that extending the Bob Lord was not as simple as Fletcher thought it would be.

02-09-2014, 07:47 AM
By the end of the season our average attendance will be under 20,000, so no.

02-09-2014, 07:47 AM
Yes and no.

We certainly shouldn't think of doing something like Blackburn did, and build a ground far too big for them for all but 2-3 games per PL season. There are undoubtedly games where if we gave away teams like United, Newcastle, Liverpool etc. 8,000 tickets we could get 30,000 on, but it's 'one offs.'

I think 24-25,000 capacity would suit us perfectly, even if we were to remain in the Premier League and prices drop a bit with the aid of future money.

Would we really want to see this type of thing regularly for league games? (Blackburn v Bournemouth)


Edit: not a slight on our neighbours really, just reality of the true size of our clubs

02-09-2014, 07:48 AM
One step at a time I would say. If our revenue streams continue on their current tragectory - sorry business talk - if we carry on getting premiership revenues I think it would be good to demolish the Fishwick stand and erect another Jimmy Mac style stand. You know there are still a number of premiership clubs that do not have huge stadiums, certainly no more than 28,000. Our business model is pretty solid. There have been some shrewd signings in the past 24 hours, and I might have to pay out if we make the top four!!!

02-09-2014, 07:49 AM

It should be miniaturized.

02-09-2014, 08:16 AM
The issue shouldn't specifically be about ground capacity but more about current facilities.

If we manage to stay in the PL then it would be prudent to look at the redevelopment of both the CFS and BLS. This doesn' t necessarily need to lead to increased capacity although an increase up to 25k, no more, should be OK. But we need to look at improved facilities that would attract fans to the games early (pub/restaurant) and also facilities that could be utilised throughout the week.

I remember CT saying that the two new stands were built as they are because that is all we could afford and it shows.

02-09-2014, 08:37 AM
"By the end of the season the average will be under 20,000 so no"

Little thought went into that comment , as the average will not be a true indicator as we are limited to around 21,000 as a maximum . I do believe against Manchester United and Chelsea we could have sold 23,000 + as will be the case with City,Liverpool,Arsenal,Newcastle etc .

02-09-2014, 09:00 AM
I think for now all we need to do is to find a way of reducing the amount of tickets available to away fans by maybe a 1000 or 1500 as we currently give a disproportionate amount away. This would increase the home capacity obviously by the same or similar amount taking into account any segregation that may be required.

On a side note the plans for the Bob Lord frontage looked smart and would look a whole lot better incorporated as part of a whole new stand which utilises all the space available. Wether that be single tier or 2 tier one. That would have to be a few years down the line though lets not do what wolves did.

02-09-2014, 09:07 AM
I have said before and will continue to maintain, Turf Moor should be knocked down and rebuilt as a new, covered arena in the shape of a large Pork Pie with a retractable 'crust' roof to be opened when the sun shines. This would be a perfect way to honour our erstwhile butcher chairman Bob Lord.

Capacity should be about 22.5K

02-09-2014, 09:08 AM
You're telling porkies. Or should that be pork(p)ies.

02-09-2014, 09:19 AM
I was at the Bradford City FA Cup replay game in 1960. Attendance was 52,850. Them were the days!

02-09-2014, 09:21 AM
I agree with Edwardian. The average this season could likely end up under 20,000, but just having 30,000 (example) against Man Utd, Liverpool and Newcastle would push the average up by over 1,400 (9,000 x 3 / 19). Add in a few more crowds of say 24-25,000 and then you could be looking at a 2,000 difference.

Alp12Mac, Burnley announce actual attenders so 21,401 (capacity) tickets sold includes season ticket/normal ticket holders who may not attend. Saturday lunch on TV May out off long distance travellers, as well as it being holiday season still.

02-09-2014, 09:22 AM
Got to be with Claretforever on this one.

A much larger ground will only be useful on occasions, so it wouldn't make a sound investment.

Take a look at the long term, at our average attendances since the new stands were built and what division we've been in.

I suspect the answers are 12-13,000 and Championship. That tells me that we don't normally have the demand to justify a large ground and that those occasions we are experiencing now aren't that common.

02-09-2014, 09:28 AM
Probably up to 25,000 (certainly no more) I would like to see the capacity increased in due course, with work on the CFS being the priority - should any major improvements to the stadium be made.
However no point having a large mint stadium in the Championship.
Let's see if we can stay up and become established, that is the priority in my eyes.

02-09-2014, 09:42 AM
I don't think it should be increased Dave. If our premier league adventure continues as we all hope I Believe demand for tickets will decrease not increase. A combination of cost and familiarity will keep attendances below 20k. Our ground is already too big for us.

I'll settle for a spruce up. Edit: and if by magic, ct posts that the BL seats are being painted!!! Marvellous.

02-09-2014, 09:46 AM
Not even worth considering unless we stay up.

But in the long-term, I would hope knocking down the CFS and building a big safe standing Kop-style stand for home fans would be an option. 6,000 capacity or so with affordable tickets BUT you're only allowed in if you sing your head off.

02-09-2014, 09:56 AM
We have lost a thousand off the capacity this season, with all the alterations. My personal wish is for the Bob lord to stay as it is - the view over the top to the pennines, from Longside Upper is fantastic - especially when you need cheering up!

When our attendances for the next games are noted, there will be a drop, for sure. However, I think the club should releax their stance on making it difficult to be sure of tickets.

I can get one for me but could not get one for my wife, for instance. Because of the early restrictions, many sales are lost.

The next cunning plan will be to incrase the capacity by allowing standing in certain areas.

There is always more room for seats in the Jimmy Mac as well! Just kick those windows in and build the seating. (Might upset some!)

The first thing that is needed is a waiting list! That would make tyhe season tickets more important and increase the club revenues without as much fuss!

02-09-2014, 10:45 AM
'I was at the Bradford City FA Cup replay in 1960. Attendance was 52850'

And thousands locked out as well. The 6th round tie was all-ticket v. Blackburn and in excess of 50000 on that game too. An eight year old boy went with his big brother to that one and went from sheer delight to despair in the space of 15 minutes. :(

02-09-2014, 11:00 AM
I'd like to see the goals we are attacking enlarged but think the stadium is fine.

02-09-2014, 12:23 PM
I don't see the point in knocking either of the 'old' stands down (although it has been pointed out to me recently that the 'new' stands are now older than the BLS and CFS were when I first went on in 1991, which is a sobering though). The CFS has just been refurbished, presumably with another 15 years + in mind. There's nothing wrong at all with the BLS. The only thing I'd be minded to do if there were ever demand is the fill in the corner between the Jimmy Mac and the Longside, and to develop some new changing facilities, media facilities etc. in either that corner or the corner where the club shop etc. now is.

Particularly if we stay up there's now a need to seriously consider where away supporters are housed. The way in which the TV compound/players entrance has been designed means its not feasible to split the CFS - rightly or wrongly - so either that has to be reconsidered again very quickly (hence my suggestion of redeveloping one of the corners to house player facilities in pa

02-09-2014, 12:52 PM
""By the end of the season the average will be under 20,000 so no"

Little thought went into that comment , as the average will not be a true indicator as we are limited to around 21,000 as a maximum . I do believe against Manchester United and Chelsea we could have sold 23,000 + as will be the case with City,Liverpool,Arsenal,Newcastle etc ."

Little thought went into the comment because it is quite simple to me. We may be able to sell 23,000+ tickets for a handful of games, but only if the away end was expanded to over 6,000.

For the other 15 or so games, we would have 2-3,000 empty seats around the ground so there is little point in expanding.

02-09-2014, 01:00 PM
I think our current capacity is fine. You could over 50000 tickets for Man Utd & Liverpool beause they'd fill it for us, but Palace, Stoke blah blah blah struggle to fill what we give them.

What we should do in the future is knock down both the boblord & cfs and combine into one stand (basically filling in the corner like the Britannia Stadium). Grounds that don't have that divide between fans in different stands seem to generate a better collective atmosphere. The basic facts are the Longside sings, the Jimmy Mc tries to follow and ends up out of sync and the Bob Lord...well whinge (those around me do).

02-09-2014, 01:01 PM
if there is a demand then yes we should but i dont belive the demand is there to justify an upgrade- no for me.

02-09-2014, 01:16 PM
Turf Moor is a piecemeal mess (but it's our mess.)

I've been to better facilities in League 2.

I would keep our capacity around 20,000 but would love a built from scratch stadium with proper facilities.

02-09-2014, 01:21 PM
We are on a par with Swansea, they don`t sell out their home games and have an average of around 20-22 thousand. The main aim is to get another term in the prem, after that the club may think of tidying up the ground by building a new CFS.

I too remember the early 60s when the Turf did`nt really have a capacity...as soon as you could`nt fit another body in they would close the gates. I think if we did get an extended stay we would be able to top 25 thousand.

02-09-2014, 02:55 PM
I think talk of an increased capacity is a little premature. We need a couple of continuous years in this league first.

02-09-2014, 03:18 PM
The BLS should be enlarged without question - it saps atmosphere from the Ground as it is too small. You could add about 8 or 9 rows at the front - and more if you lowered the pitch by a couple of yards - that is about 1500 . I was about 10-12 rows back in JMS recently and noticed that I was eye level with bottom row of BLS. Pitch could move nearer JHS - as there is space for that as you all probably know.
If you could add 10 rows at back then you would have a 6 k capacity stand and it would sell out as the demand for BLS is greater than other stands I understand. I know some people who will only go in the BLS and no other - those who think they are part of the gentrified enclave (posh end) of Burnley.

02-09-2014, 03:27 PM
"I don't see the point in knocking either of the 'old' stands down "

The one huge one for me would be improving the hospitality. We are told time after time how important this is in modern day football. If we secured another season in the top flight I think it may be high on the priority list.
Spend money while we have it to potentially improve our income further down the line.

02-09-2014, 03:29 PM
Move the pitch??? We've got another 10 years in that pitch. Its only 5 years since we spent 750k on it :O

02-09-2014, 03:36 PM
"Would we really want to see this type of thing regularly for league games? (Blackburn v Bournemouth)"

Nobody did this better than Darlington.
Decided to move to a 25 thousand allseater stadium.




Has Darlington FC even folded now? I remember hearing they might fold at one time, not heard much about them since they were relegated out of the football league.

Just did a quick search, and it seems they have now folded.

[i]"Darlington Football Club was an English football club based in Darlington, County Durham. The club was founded in 1883, and played its games at Feethams, before moving to the Darlington Arena in 2003. The arena is an all-seater stadium with a capacity of 25,000, although this was restricted to 10,000. The cost of the stadium was a major factor in driving the club into administration. The club originally played in regionally organised leagues, and wer

02-09-2014, 03:37 PM
"The one huge one for me would be improving the hospitality."

Fair point, but that can be dealt with by filling in the corners, and putting new boxes in there, rather than new stands.

02-09-2014, 03:41 PM
should turf moor be enlarged ?

what into a supermarket ? ;D

02-09-2014, 03:58 PM
why don't they just let you perform on the pitch every Saturday instead of that ****e you call a team? At least you'd be able to open another stand.

02-09-2014, 04:08 PM
Maybe spice but that's about 4 or 5 tops.

Far more possibilities with a new stand. Of course it depends a lot on the cricket club etc.

02-09-2014, 04:58 PM
IF we stay up then this would be a perfect time for a completely new ground. This would allow us to set the limit, provide smart new hospitality, decent parking, hotel for away fans and Burnley fans living away, AND training facilities on one site.
The planned race course at Altham looks dead in the water so now would be the time to pick up the land cheap and there would be plenty of room for all of the above.
Good bus links to Burnley bus station. Straight off the M65 with no town to drive through.
And the biggest plus - I could walk to matches !

02-09-2014, 05:09 PM
Darlo play in Evo Stick Div 1 North, and ground share with Bishop Auckland, 12 miles away.

Darlington Arena is now owned by Darlington Mowden Park Rugby club and is being developed into a multi sports facility.

If Darlo tells you anything its don't spend money you don't have even when your club is being successful.

Oh and don't sell your heritage to crooks.

02-09-2014, 05:36 PM
Darlo have plans to move back to Darlington, ground sharing with Darlington R.U.F.C, unfortunately not Mowden Park.

I've been to a handful of games at Bishop to see them. They still regularly get 12-1300 on for 'home' matches. A more passionate, friendly crowd you'd struggle to find.

They were sold down the river by the Golden Goose. George Reynolds local celebrity wide boy, with more dodgy dealings than 'Arry.

They dipped out on promotion last season beaten by Rammy in the playoffs in a league that was there for the taking really. I'm confident this year they will go up.

02-09-2014, 05:43 PM
I can see why your asking I think we will get some great followings from the other Prem teams because the turf is just such a proper ground to visit...let's see how we do then it could be redeveloped time .

02-09-2014, 05:46 PM
Agree with some earlier posts in that there is no point at the moment. If we have a 2-3 year run in the Prem, then converting the Bob Lord and Cricket Field stands into two-tiers (to balance out the ground and soothe my OCD) wouldn't be a bad thing. We need success first otherwise the crowds and cash will disappear.

02-09-2014, 11:09 PM
No, ideally it would be great to have the Turf packed with thousands more fans.
Sadly the reality is that most seasons we get about half of what the recent crowds have been like.
Even with a Premier league fixture list, others have pointed out the ground won't be full.
All the hype, all the corporate sloganeering can only go so far in generating more interest. We just cannot justify expansion .
As for the comment about away fans and Burnley's reluctance to mix it up a bit!!Forget it.
We haven't accidentally arrived at a stage whereby fans are sheperded out of grounds under police escort for no reason. It all came about because maniacs decided to viciously attack each other week in, week out.Whatever the well intentioned fans believe, thuggery is alive and well given the right circumstances. Keep the warring factions as far away as is humanly possible.

03-09-2014, 06:16 AM
Many questions posed have to be answered ,namely:
1. Are Burnley ambitious to regain their past glorious time ?
2. Have we a good Manager and a coaching staff ?
3. Can we rely on the two Chairmen and the Board of Directors ?
4. have we a competent squad to match teams of the premier league ?
5. What's about our foundation and youth teams ? Can we inherit a couple of players to play in our senior team ?
6. Do we give the same facilities to our players as other clubs ?
7.According to your assessment can we survive the EPL this season ?
8.If tour reply is positive can we take it as a base for a proper take off and establish ourselves as a reular team in the EPL .
9.of course if our performances are honourable there will be an upsurge for additional attendance .
10. The fans of neighbouring clubs such as Man chester United ,City ,Liverpool ,Everton ,Stoke and some others will be at Turf Moor when their clubs are playing >Still we have to quantify the number .

By answering these ques

03-09-2014, 06:49 AM
the current capacity is fine. the club could build across the back of the bob lord. like in the plans for the new shop and incorparate boxes and a new roof structure to get rid of the supporting pillers. same with the cricket field stand. what i would like to se are better facilities for our disabled fans, possibly a raised up area under the scoreboard with some cover.

03-09-2014, 06:53 AM
CFS Needs to be rebuilt 3000 away fans
Bob lord rebuilt in an ellipse shape 5000
gaps need to be filled in between stands

03-09-2014, 06:58 AM
"converting the Bob Lord and Cricket Field stands into two-tiers (to balance out the ground and soothe my OCD) wouldn't be a bad thing". Can't win on this one - I need the corners filling in to soothe my OCD!

Bigger ground, lower admission (significantly) prices to make sure it remains full and a new generation of clarets is developed with "going to the game in their blood".

03-09-2014, 07:05 AM
More spaces should equal cheaper prices, but would need at least a 3-5 year run in the Prem otherwise Championship equals 12,000 average crowds, so would be pointless.
The easiest way to do it without having to enlarge would be change lower tears to standing? If it was aloud.

03-09-2014, 07:08 AM
Standing at grounds is in the Liberal Democrats manifesto apparently. Not that would trust them!

03-09-2014, 07:09 AM
I think we should have two grounds, one for the Premier League and one for the Championship.

03-09-2014, 07:16 AM
Being a foreigner i do not know the policy in ticket marketing ,If ever the ground capacity is enlarged ,the club can sell tickets to children and elderly at a discounted price .These young when they grow up are bound to support the club .And at least we are providing a sporting recreational activity to our elderly people

03-09-2014, 07:42 AM
There is no way Turf Moor will be enlarged or home fans will be back in the CFS.

Lee Hoos is working on the basic supply & demand economic model. By reducing the number of seats available to home fans he's increased demand not only allowing him to increase prices but also getting fans used to the idea of having to by a ticket early in order to guarantee a seat.

The argument that this won't work is flawed based on the fact that at least 8 sides (cat A) will sell out the away end and the less 'exciting' opposition (i.e. QPR) wouldn't create enough demand anyway to fill anymore than what's currently available to home fans.

03-09-2014, 09:53 AM
If Lee Hoos was working on a simple supply and demand model for selling tickets then wouldn't he have scrapped the early bird tickets?

After all, a lot of the people who buy them are die hard fans who'd buy no matter what division we are in and no matter what price we charge.

If the home end has sold out and fans were queuing up to join a season ticket waiting list then I would agree with you holdo1 but it's not the case.

03-09-2014, 10:21 AM
Yes, the ground should be enlarged and the capacity should be increased - but not this season.

We have an opportunity this season, more than any other in the last several years, because the income from television is now higher - both in absolute terms and relative to the gate income - than ever before. This television income does not depend on the size of our gate or the size of our club, so this year although our total income will be less than most other teams in the Premier league, we are at least playing on a more even field (financially).

We need to stay in the Premier league but we can do this as long as we hold on to Sean Dyche. There's no reason why our commercial activity cannot increase in the overseas markets, particularly with great journalists plugging the 'plucky little outsiders' line, such as Simon Evans in the USA. Why shouldn't the non-aligned overseas followers choose Burnley colours for their replica kits and lead to an increase in our commercial activities and

03-09-2014, 11:10 AM
""If Lee Hoos was working on a simple supply and demand model for selling tickets then wouldn't he have scrapped the early bird tickets?""

No...he wouldn't...he may be out of touch with mainstream supporters but he's not that daft...even he knows that would have lead to a significant boycott and even more ill-feeling than that created by his retainer.

The current mentality is probably pinched from the plans of the rail companies. ie..forget significant increases in infrastructure (new lines/rolling stock/staffing etc)but increase prices way beyond inflation to bring demand down and into line with capacity.

Basic fourth-form economics.

03-09-2014, 11:32 AM
What Fatboy said.

There are currently roughly 3,000 less seats for home supporters (outside corporate areas) at Turf Moor this time around than there were in 2009, which is a reduction of around 15% by maths.

That, inevitably, increases the scope to charge higher walk-on ticket prices, because there's greater demand for every available seat.

The fact that its been introduced with slightly more tact than would be the case if the early bird was abandoned doesn't make this any less the case.

Hoos would say that because of the fact that even with capacity for 4,000 away fans, away demand will comfortably outstrip supply for at least 8 or 9 games this season, overall he's maximising the club's position in exploiting supply and demand economics. Fact remains he's doing so to the detriment of average supporters, whether for right or for wrong being a different question entirely.

03-09-2014, 12:52 PM
If BFC were to knock down the Bob Lord next season we'd lose 3500 capacity which would translate to somewhere between 1 and 2 million in lost ticket revenue. Not counting the hospitality. If it was then replaced by a new 7000 seat stand we'd probably need to invest a minimum of 10 million. To get that 11-12 million back from a stand that would bring in around 3-4 million a season in ticket sales would take at least 4-5 seasons in the top flight.

So when it comes down to it we'd be better off sitting tight until one of the stands needs replacing because it's no longer fit for purpose.

03-09-2014, 12:57 PM
fatboy47, apparently Lee Hoos carried on doing economics into 5th form and beyond.

The ticket price for the home walk-on fans is not higher because of supply and demand for the home tickets. They are more expensive because they have to be the same price as the tickets in the away end. Hoos is maximising the money he gets from the away fans.

You can bet that if there are thousands of tickets available for home seats in the coming months he won't change the price of the home tickets, he'll just re-introduce the flexi-ticket scheme.

03-09-2014, 01:26 PM
I'm afraid you're rambling DiB.

I never mentioned anything about home/away differentials. I'm clearly talking about the overall policy which is so clearly based on supply and demand principles as to be obvious to just about anyone.

Re-introducing flexi-tickets may not be as simple as you think, because the prices will now have to be squared with the recent prices paid for STs.

03-09-2014, 01:29 PM
They will, but they will still represent a saving on current walk on prices.

Thats probably first year economics if we are going down that road btw.

Assuming of course that we feel the need to release them again.

03-09-2014, 01:42 PM
you wouldn't need to knock the bob lord down, just extend at the back of it, take the roof off and then put a new roof on. Just like man city are doing.

03-09-2014, 02:00 PM
"Standing at grounds is in the Liberal Democrats manifesto apparently"...at last a political distinction worth voting for.

Enlarging the ground? only when we can afford to do it without sacrificing the already limited player budget - which will need to increase year on year WHEN we stay up anyways.

03-09-2014, 02:01 PM
Afternoon morninbob.

I remember we discussed Fletcher's plans to add a second tier onto the Bob Lord stand and I'm almost certain that CT suggested that it wasn't possible.

With the work that's planned on that side of the ground over the coming months and the money that's been spent on the CFS I can't see the club even considering redeveloping either stand anytime soon.

03-09-2014, 02:11 PM
just look at it through a telescope.

03-09-2014, 02:13 PM
anythings possible, when I saw the plans for the new club shop and extended corporate offices I thought what a wasted opportunity. Anyway how many sets of drawings have we seen that haven't happened ? remember the breadbin ?

All is needed is to extend the boblord back to the road and put a new roof on.

Heres a link to city's expansion - view external link (www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PQgL0ZvmnU)

03-09-2014, 02:21 PM
dont alter your ground.. back to 11,000 crowds next season ..
or maybe you could level the whole dumphole of a place .

03-09-2014, 02:34 PM
I doubt safe standing would increase capacity, it might reduce capacity because they think each person needs a guard rail in front of them.

03-09-2014, 02:53 PM
I like the idea of that morninbob but can you really imagine Burnley FC doing that?

Would we be allowed to have those sticky out bits over hanging Harry Potts way?

03-09-2014, 05:30 PM
''dont alter your ground.. back to 11,000 crowds next season ..
or maybe you could level the whole dumphole of a place .''

And which message board have you come from?

03-09-2014, 05:58 PM
My idea would be, once we've stayed up for at least once season, to knock down the bob lord completely and build a large single tiered stand. (doesn't have to be massive, bring capacity up to around 24-26k.

Away fans can be put in the corner of this stand - no sucking the ball into the net.

New changing rooms befitting a PL club can also be installed, and the tunnel can come out at the halfway line.

Perfect. Now where's my wallet?

The Bedlington Terrier
03-09-2014, 06:11 PM
Can we clip the corners together? That would probably improve the capacity immensely if we could.

03-09-2014, 06:16 PM
"And which message board have you come from?"

Looks like a Wigan fan, be lucky if they could get 11 thousand home fans on for a Premier League game.

03-09-2014, 06:41 PM
Whatever we do I think it is important the Bob Lord side ends up being taller than it is now as the ground looks wrong and atmosphere is badly affected by it's size and height.

As many others have already said, I'd like to see the Bob Lord extended back with new roof added and pillars removed, taking capacity to about 25k.

If in doing this we can move away fans into a block or two then great, as we need to get away fans out of CFS if we can't segregate it.

If we are going a step further then I'd take down both CFS and BL and replace with one single tier wrap around like at Stoke.

03-09-2014, 07:25 PM
Yes but purchase 10,000 inflateable fans for when things are quiet.

04-09-2014, 06:40 AM
DiB, I'd imagine if the Bob Lord Stand was ever redeveloped they may not necessarily knock it down. The may consider building behind and above it, new roof etc, then take the old roof off afterwards so that capacity isn't troubled (too much?). Not sure the current foundations could take extra a capacity?

PStotto, in Europe the capacity of a stand is increased by around 90% when in safe standing mode. I'm not sure why you'd think that capcity would be reduced? That possibly wouldn't work with how our current seats are set up so close together at Turf Moor, but it should be at least the same.

04-09-2014, 07:43 AM
Looking at Turf Moor on googlemaps I reckon we'd struggle to double the size of the Bob Lord unless the stand could be moved forwards and that could also mean needing to have metalwork overhanging the pavement.

If it could be built right upto the wall on the street front then it looks like you might be able to add an extra 10 to 15 rows which would equate to 2000 - 3000 extra seats.
I think that would be a perfect size for us and the higher stand would also give the ground a better balance than it has at the moment.

I guess another complication would be finding the space for a concourse and of course integrating the existing buildings where the club have and still are investing a lot of money.

Thinking about the Man City idea of building behind it and then removing the roof and the back wall at the last minute, that might actually work. Assuming that the demolition work can be carried out without destroying anything. I think Man City will probably find that easier because their

04-09-2014, 11:01 AM
I thought redevelopment of the BLS does involve moving it forward and the pitch being moved closer to the Longside to accommodate it. I thought this was something factored in when building the new stands, with the knowledge that any similar development of the BLS in particular would need a bigger footprint...either that or I dreamt it.

04-09-2014, 11:26 AM
A pipedreamer's thread.

Even in this, only our second season at this level since the 70's we are only talking of needing extra capacity for a handful of other clubs' fans.

Should there be a demonstrable and consistent demand for more than 22k seats then it's clear this will be addressed by increasing prices.

Can you imagine the boardroom conversation?

""We could easily get an extra 3,000 in fer a few games next season ...what do you think Mike?""..."" Well Lee, it's either shove prices up another tenner and make another 30 grand on't gate, or get down't dry powder store and find 20 million or so to stick up a new shed, and then have to drop prices for most games to get near filling it""... ""Another tenner it is then boss!""

04-09-2014, 08:59 PM
We should have a medium to long term vision of what is required, even if things go right on and off the pitch we may only have one shot at putting the mess of 1996 right.

The first issue for me is everyone is mixed up around the ground, there used to be a place for everyone to gravitate towards people of a similar mindset, you now have people who want to stand up are in front of people who don't, fans who want to be a bit more boisterous and use industrial language with others who find it unacceptable and supporters who want to get an atmosphere going are spread out in different tiers and this affects things massively.

The Bob Lord Stand was excellent in it's day but needs a revamp, more so than the CFS, as a Premier League club our corporate facilities are not turning over the revenues they should and a rebuilt BLS with all the seats being perfect views rather than the restricted ones they are now, larger concourses and a much improved corporate area would help recoup some of the ou

04-09-2014, 09:47 PM
Agree with Goody.

The key to any future redevelopment has to be corporate revenues. Nothing else makes economic sense.

Truth is its a catch-22 because those corporate revenues only materialise in the PL, so there is a risk in diverting money to ground redevelopment ahead of investing in the team.

Its a cheap option, but I think the club should explore whether there's scope to re-roof the Bob Lord without rebuilding it to offer unrestricted views, and perhaps at the same time refurbish the area behind the seats so that the whole stand is enclosed, and the concourse underneath internal facilities running the whole length of the stand, rather than just the middle half. If, in doing that, they can add an extra 10 rows of seats to the back of the stand, bolted onto the existing structure then great.

23,000 is about our limit, which means that redevelopments which aren't pegged to tangible returns in terms of corporate revenues will never give us a return, and the truth is that no area

05-09-2014, 07:24 AM
25-30k should be the aim and ceiling. It needs a sustained period in the PL and also depends on whether other events are ever to be held there. As it stands we could get more on.

05-09-2014, 07:49 AM
I don't understand all the comments about changing rooms. That has been a major investment this summer to build a bigger home dressing room that's almost identical to the one at Gawthorpe. I can't see any reason why we'd need to consider replacing that. The new facilities in the CFS should mean the club doesn't need to touch that or the dressing rooms that it houses for another 10-15 years.

05-09-2014, 07:54 AM
Maybe because the position we are in now is the only chance we may get to put a long term plan together for Turf Moor, if we are relegated then that chance may pass us by for a very long time.

New changing rooms are part of that long term vision whether we have spent money on them this summer or not.

05-09-2014, 08:06 AM
I agree with the comments regarding the CFS. It's just had a huge amount of money spent on it, and aside from painting the metalwork in the roof(next year?), and possibly replacing the seats with plastic ones in a few season I don't think they'll be taking that down anytime soon. Why would they? It allows away fans 4,000 tickets, which they don't get at many other PL grounds.

The Bob Lord would be the one to mess with IMO. As I mentioned earlier, if they could work around the existing framework and buildings, taking it back a 15-20 rows then that would surely create an increased capacity to somewhere near our required limit: 23-25,000 perhaps in the PL.

05-09-2014, 08:06 AM
Just to add, this is something which only needs thought if we stay up.

05-09-2014, 08:36 AM
My point about the changing rooms is that we just invested a large amount of money increasing the size to fit the new Premier League standards. We've almost doubled the size of the home dressing room, we've added a physio area and all the facilities that we could possibly want. There is absolutely no benefit for the club to move these facilities to another stand.

05-09-2014, 08:44 AM
The fact that most of agree that 23,000 to 25,000 seats is probably the maximum reasonable size for Turf Moor makes me think that we're unlikely to see any changes to the ground in the near future. Too much work for too little gain if the board think the same way.

I still don't understand what the current capacity is, both home games were described as sell outs but the crowds were announced as 21099 against Man Utd and 20699 against Chelsea. Our biggest crowd of recent years was 21,761 against Bolton in December 2009. Have we really lost 662 seats since then? Surely filling in the tunnel and not having the "segregation" zone in the CFS means that we should have more seats than before despite the extended press facilities? Do the press not count in the crowd figure?

05-09-2014, 09:21 AM
Didn't we sacrifice a team to pay for the two all seater stands (CF and BL stands) in the late 60's 70's?

05-09-2014, 09:36 PM
DiBraidio, the crowd we announce is the people who come through the turnstiles, not the tickets sold. A sell out this season is 21,401, but if some ticket holders choose not to attend then the crowd we announce will be lower. LOTS of clubs announce the tickets sold as the attendance.

05-09-2014, 10:31 PM
Im not having that

05-09-2014, 11:27 PM
Intersting one about the changing rooms, saw a comment to Darren Bentley that went under the radar the other week.

He was asked whether the away changing rooms had been touched at all and he replied 'id prefer not to answer that one'.

Strange reply and seemed to suggest that we have been a bit underhand over the summer?

05-09-2014, 11:52 PM
Is it underhand? I've been on stadium tours at the Stadium of Light, Old Trafford and the Amex where the guide has delighted in the fact that the away dressing room bears no comparison to the home dressing room. Should we be any different?

It might be petty but it seems to be part of the culture of the game.