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View Full Version : Wayne Rooney - England Legend ?



karatekid
10-10-2014, 07:16 PM
It seems that Rooney may become England's all time record goal scorer by the time he hangs up his boots but somehow , even though you can't deny the stats , he just doesn't seem to me to be in the same class as Greaves ,Lineker and Charlton.
Probably due to the fact he never does well in tournaments and most of his goals have come against the likes of san marino etc. He always comes up empty handed in the important games.
Does anyone think he will deserve the accolade of being England's all time top goalscorer?

SirMichaelDuff
10-10-2014, 07:29 PM
Agree, but it is what it is, because he is a chunky little scrubber, he is less likely to get injured, so has been relatively injury free.

Compare him with Michael Owen for example:

If Owen was a 'Chunky Scrubber' par say, he would have scored over 70 goals for England in his career.

garfunkal
10-10-2014, 07:31 PM
Not rated on here by the same posters who think Steven Reid is a good signing

karatekid
10-10-2014, 08:19 PM
Maybe its just a character issue with Wayne. At least Beckham had a personality, :D

goobs
10-10-2014, 10:50 PM
Just what I was going to say karatekid. Rooney's problem isn't that he has a lack of skill or quality it's primarily that he is an unlikable character and as such will never be regarded as a legend no matter what he does.

yesTHATironingboard
10-10-2014, 11:17 PM
he seems to attract a certain amount of negativity because he 'isn't in the same class as messi or ronaldo'.

considering that every single other footballer still playing today could arguably fit into that category i'd say that particular criticism is unfair.

he doesn't seem to have the same fearlessness that he had at everton and early on at man utd but he's still currently the best english player. he's certainly a better footballer than gary lineker was.

football is about confidence and anyone that resorts to wearing a wig (no matter how hi-tech) can't have much.

roseylee
11-10-2014, 12:00 AM
rooney england legend my arse. :D

charlton, finney, moore, edwards, matthews , banks, they are legends.

rooney. :D :D never in a million years. :D

enola_gay
11-10-2014, 12:33 AM
he seems to attract a certain amount of negativity because he 'isn't in the same class as messi or ronaldo'.

For a while though he was spoken of in the same terms as those two.

The current distrust he comes up against might be because while those two have kicked on, he doesn't seem to have. His best major tournament for England is still probably Euro 2004.

IanMcL
11-10-2014, 12:34 AM
More likely to go down as a bellend rather than legend.

yesTHATironingboard
11-10-2014, 12:39 AM
For a while though he was spoken of in the same terms as those two.

that's hardly his fault. having a go at him because he isn't as good as you think he ought to be isn't his problem.

yorksclaret
11-10-2014, 04:40 AM
He was/is put alongside Messi and Ronaldo by sponsors, on adverts and video games because of the fact that he's the top Englishman playing for the most popular team both at International level and in the 'best league in the world'.
He's box office around the world.

Good player obviously, but it's hard to regard him as a legend. If he does get the record though that's exactly what he will be and fair play to him.



'Does anyone think he will deserve the accolade of being England's all time top goalscorer?'
Bizarre question. If he scores enough then obviously, yes.

Boliclaret
11-10-2014, 10:06 AM
He was quick, raw and enthusiastic during Euro 2004 as an out and out striker and I think the press bigged him up a bit too much. Since joining United he's been given more responsibility playing deeper in the hole for England and the pressure sometimes shows.

He's often expected to do too much due to the lack of talent coming through. Similar wonderkid accolades were bestowed on Joe Cole and Woodgate and neither have received anywhere near the same abuse. Rooneys spat at Unt over wages hasn't helped his popularity either, putting him in the 'chavy scouser' camp. He hasn't spunked his football career away like Greaves did for example, yet Greaves is a ex lovable pundit due to his personality, whilst Rooney by his own admission is shy and aloof from the limelight which only means 'arrogant' to the general public when your wealthy and successful.

I don't buy the argument that he should give 200% due to his wages and sweat blood. Rooneys always kept himself fit and given his all whilst

lotty1
11-10-2014, 10:21 AM
I think the comments about Greaves are incredibly hard . He was around 30 when he started drinking to access after a superb career . He fought alcoholism for a few years but came out of the other side and had a successful business career . Certainly don't think he spunked his career .

Boliclaret
11-10-2014, 10:27 AM
Lotty, Scrub the 'spunked his career' comment, I was trying too hard to make a point. ;)

Basically I think Rooneys stats and performances have been underplayed due to his lack of popularity, alot of it no doubt due to who he plays for.

ClaretMatt4
11-10-2014, 10:30 AM
Getting 100 caps and scoring 50 goals for your country isn't the same anymore. More friendlies and more games against gash teams like San Marino and Estonia.

Rooney is a good player and will probably go down as one of the best English players of his generation, but he is no legend.

Alp12Mac
11-10-2014, 10:34 AM
I think off the pitch he is very shy, a bit like Scholes was and isn't interested in the media circus. Perhaps that's why many of the modern celebrity obsessed people don't like him.

Both him and Coleen seem to be grounded people but the green eyed monster knows no bounds.

Jimmy Greaves was in my mind the best England striker in modern times (relative to my age) but seldom gets any credit for his prowess.

Wayne Rooney, like him or loath him will break the record and his achievements should be admired and given due credit.

He has done everything asked of him possibly to the detriment of his own potential. Could you ever imagine Shearer being told to play deeper or wider and cracking on with it.

stevie_thunder
11-10-2014, 10:45 AM
How does Wayne's goals per games stats compare to Greaves and Lineker?

Players in the modern era are far more likely to break goal scoring records due to the number of games they play; very much like cricket, where Alastair Cook will likely become England's highest run scorer.

Like Rooney, Cook is among the best of his generation but clearly not England's best ever batsman. averages are probably the best way to compare against players from past eras. And if you want to dig deeper, you could look at the opposition to see how they fared against the best teams, in big games (e.g. World Cups) or how significant the contributions were to winning matches or rescuing games.

Also - Rooney is a victim of the modern era in that although football is more popular than ever, footballers themselves generally aren't. He has also been a member of a series of very poor England teams which will no doubt have affected people's judgement of his career.

lotty1
11-10-2014, 10:48 AM
I would agree with your last comments Boliclaret

IanMcL
11-10-2014, 11:13 AM
The problem now is that even fringe players get 5 mins and so gain a 'cap'.

Ifd you only looked at starts to award a cap, how many would he have then? Also, how mnay of his goals have come when he has entered the field as a sub?

If, after that, he can say I got 35 goals from 70 caps, that would be fantastic.

silkyskills1
11-10-2014, 11:21 AM
Duncan Edwards played 18 times for England and scored five goals. No way can that be considered legendary credentials not even at Bolton Wanderers. Jimmy Edwards, Buster Edwards, even Eddie Edwards might have more to offer.

AuntSally
11-10-2014, 11:30 AM
He's had 1 decent tournament for England and apart from that, has never lived up to his expectations from when he was 16 at Everton and moving to United, scoring a hatrick on his European debut.

He was at his best at 16-17-18 and since then, for England he's been lacking in pretty much every competitive game he's played against a good opposition. A legend would have performed at the highest stage.

lucs86
11-10-2014, 11:53 AM
There's a lot of negativity about Rooney at the moment largely due to things out of his control. His crazy contract at United and being given the captaincy at United and England have come at a time in his career when he's losing the burst of pace and power that put him amongst the world's best 4-5 years ago.

He can shoot and his long passing is very good but when I've seen him for United recently his movement and his short passing have been really poor. He's no longer first pick for United or England, I'm not sure I'd play him if everyone's fit.

He hit his peak young probably because of his stocky build.

claret78
11-10-2014, 01:13 PM
Nobody has called Wayne Rooney a legend though have they?

His goal scoring record stands up to anyone's for England 0.52 goals a game- Owen 0.45 goals a game, Lineker 0.6, Greaves 0.77

I've only seen the first two players and he was a better all round player than both of those easily.

At the end of the day you have to remember only 11 players in the history of English football have won more international honours than Rooney.

The Bedlington Terrier
11-10-2014, 01:25 PM
Have Inter, Real or Barca made noises about signing him? No! Most of his England performances are in the "indifferent" or "rubbish" category. Seen Rooney twice at the Turf in the Prem and Fabregas twice. I know who I would sooner have. Nowhere near a legend in my book, just a Scouser with no class and a bit of footie talent. Bobby Moore is a legend, Rooney is nowhere near!

roseylee
11-10-2014, 01:26 PM
nowadays england play a lot more games than they used to do, meaningless friendlies, and endless international qualifiers.

back in the fities and sixties, england were lucky if they played more than 3 or 4 times a year. no way would half of these players got the amount of caps they do now they have back then.

the squad would have been the same players virtually every game, in the last 20 - 30 years england would be lucky if they put the same team out two games running

conyoviejo
11-10-2014, 01:34 PM
Wayne Rooney an England Bell end ..not legend

claret78
11-10-2014, 01:36 PM
I don't think you can compare players from 50 years ago with present day players but that's only my personal opinion. I remember watching a repeat (obviously) of the Brazil England game from 1970 and it was played at virtual walking pace.

taio
11-10-2014, 01:39 PM
'Getting 100 caps and scoring 50 goals for your country isn't the same anymore. More friendlies and more games against gash teams like San Marino and Estonia.'

Don't agree with that at all. International football is far more competitive these days.

In the 1960s England beat Luxembourg 9-0, Scotland 9-3, Mexico 8-0, Switzerland 8-1, Northern Ireland 8-3, USA 10-0.

Would those type of results happen so frequently in the modern era? Nope.

In those six games, Charlton and Greaves, who are legends by the way, each scored 10 goals.

taio
11-10-2014, 01:50 PM
'back in the fities and sixties, england were lucky if they played more than 3 or 4 times a year. no way would half of these players got the amount of caps they do now they have back then.'

Rosey talking ****e as usual. In the 1960s they played an average of 10 games a year.

claret78
11-10-2014, 01:51 PM
Turkey were rubbish in the eighties and lineker grabbed two hat tricks in 8-0 and 5-0 wins. 4 against Malaysia too.

roseylee
11-10-2014, 02:40 PM
and how many games do england play nowadays taio ? you can double the amount of games england play now compared to the sixties.

there is no comparison whatsoever. ;D

taio
11-10-2014, 03:15 PM
'you can double the amount of games england play now compared to the sixties.'

more rubbish. from 1960 - 1969 they played 100 games and from 2000 - 2009 they played 117 games. Slightly more but just 17 games over a decade.

roseylee
11-10-2014, 03:29 PM
dont make laugh taio. ;D

england play countries now, that did not even exist in the sixties.

they play far more friendlies, and the qualifying groups are much larger for the major tournaments.;D

bobinho
11-10-2014, 07:47 PM
I suppose it had to happen... if you post for long enough, probability dictates you will eventually say something that someone agrees with.

Well done Rosie. (post 7 above)

Rooney is not fit to be mentioned alongside those players you listed. And he still won't be even if he scores 200 for England.

Although I can't help wondering if your reason for disliking the horrible little fat scouser is purely down to the club he plays for, and nothing to do with the way he plays.

Anyway, I'm off to give my head a shake. :/

roseylee
11-10-2014, 08:42 PM
i agree bobinho, some fans will never be educated even though the facts are staring at them in their face.

their loss not mine. ;D

karatekid
12-10-2014, 06:16 PM
Well that's another goal towards Wayne becoming all time top scorer. He'll have to break the record before the Euro championship though as we all know he won't get any during the tournament. ;D

SirMichaelDuff
12-10-2014, 06:26 PM
Another fantastic post most match interview, the guy just oozes thickness.

claret78
12-10-2014, 06:50 PM
"If Owen was a 'Chunky Scrubber' "par say""

Kettle and black are two words that spring to mind.

SirMichaelDuff
12-10-2014, 06:59 PM
Do you know what that euphemism means?

claret78
12-10-2014, 07:01 PM
Yes and what?

Rowls
12-10-2014, 07:16 PM
'back in the fities and sixties, england were lucky if they played more than 3 or 4 times a year. no way would half of these players got the amount of caps they do now they have back then.'

To accrue all his caps, did Bobby Charlton's England career span 25-30 years?

Boliclaret
12-10-2014, 07:27 PM
Rosey, Its a fair cop, bang to rights, now take him down and get him out of my sight!

Although we'd hardly need Sweeney Todd to disprove an idiot from Leeds. ;D

MrClaretandBlue
12-10-2014, 07:32 PM
"Do you know what that euphemism means?"


Do you know what euphemism means?

SirMichaelDuff
12-10-2014, 07:40 PM
Does it mean 'nosey parker'?

socrates
13-10-2014, 06:45 AM
Just looking through Rooney's international record.

21 of his goals have come against the mighty Estonia, San Marino, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Andorra, Kazakhstan, Slovakia and Liechtenstein.

His record against decent sides (Portugal, France, Germany, Holland, Italy, Germany, Spain, Brazil) is a less impressive 4 in 18.

He's scored 2 goals in 13 tournament games since he went off injured against Portugal in 2004.

LancasterClaret
13-10-2014, 07:01 AM
He was very poor last night, except for the free kick which won us the game.

Our best player? Wiltshire

Boliclaret
13-10-2014, 08:33 AM
Claret78 wrote, Nobody has called Wayne Rooney a legend though have they?

Exactly, most of the bickering and anger has come purely from speculating fans, who expect too much from their sporting celebs and take it as a personal afront when they're not as good as we think they should be.

All Rooneys doing is getting on with his job.

This is probably why the general public are seen as a pain in the arse.

braindead
13-10-2014, 09:07 AM
By the time Wayne Rooney retires he will be the highest capped outfield player (Possibly the highest capped English footballer EVER) and also the record goalscorer in English football HISTORY.

But no, because he is a bit of an arse, and not likeable like your Gary Linekers and Michael Owens of this world then he isn't considered a legend by most people.

And all the guff about He has scored x amount of goals against San Marino etc etc - Every football international since the dawn of time should be filling their boots against these teams, that isn't a detrimental argument in my opinion.

He is a legend.

silkyskills1
13-10-2014, 09:23 AM
'a bit of an arse and not likeable'

Pretty good for an opening offer. There just has to be better than that for a Rooney profile though. I'll offer obnoxious.

The Bedlington Terrier
13-10-2014, 04:11 PM
He is nowhere near good enough to be considered a legend. A legend would have bagged four goals last night, Messi most certainly would have..!

ClaretTony2014
13-10-2014, 04:13 PM
"Our best player? Wiltshire"

The whole county? :D

taio
13-10-2014, 04:19 PM
According to BBC he has now scored 31 competitive goals for England, more than any other player in the country's history.

So those referring to meaningless friendlies doesn't really follow.

I think the criticism about him not performing at WC and Euro finals is fair.

joe14
13-10-2014, 04:26 PM
In another decade he wouldn't even be on the bench.

claret78
13-10-2014, 04:35 PM
What decade would that be then??!

damodamo
13-10-2014, 04:36 PM
" because he is a chunky little scrubber, he is less likely to
get injured"

are you 8 years old or mentaly retarded?

damodamo
13-10-2014, 04:38 PM
" What decade would that be then??!"

the good old 2030's

poultonclaret
13-10-2014, 04:43 PM
why should the fact that 'he doesn't sound well educated' or that 'he isn't a sparkling personality' have any bearing on his footballing talent? makes me laugh at those who slag him off because he didn't go on to further education when reminding them that he earns about 12 -15 million a year. as for as his performances for england - disappointing for a few years now. maybe it's worse because we expect so much from him and that defenders, up 'til recently, only had to mark him as the rest of the england team were hardly worth worrying about.

Mike_Baldwin
13-10-2014, 05:08 PM
Perhaps best to judge his legacy when he retires. But he has his fair share of silverware already and a decent club and international record already at just 29.

SirMichaelDuff
13-10-2014, 06:07 PM
Proper Legend

http://i61.tinypic.com/ohsq39.jpg

Mike_Baldwin
13-10-2014, 06:21 PM
Fair point Sir Michael. But I can think of one or two "clarets legends" with a few skeletons in the cupboard !

Boliclaret
13-10-2014, 06:27 PM
In another decade he wouldn't even be on the bench.

Well the English national side was certainly no great shake in the 70's. They only qualified in 1970 by being holders. The best we did in the 80's was reach the last 16.

Still we can always blame Englands recent failings on Sky.

PvtJoker
13-10-2014, 07:45 PM
A very, very good player who is often used as England's scapegoat.

TheInsideMan
13-10-2014, 07:48 PM
Decent player nowhere near a legend, scored 1 goal in World Cups.