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The Bedlington Terrier
10-11-2014, 03:11 PM
Now that Wardy has had a couple of starts are we better with him or Ben Mee at left back? I think we look better defensively with Ward but there does not seem to be much between them.

MJT
10-11-2014, 03:14 PM
First I saw of Ward on Saturday, his experience counts!

claretspice
10-11-2014, 03:17 PM
Ward.

Had Mee been on the pitch, I don't believe we'd have scored on Saturday, because Mee doesnt give the same quality of delivery into the front men that Ward does. The pass down the line wasn't spectacular, but it was perfect for Ings, which meant he was able to shift it to Barnes instantly. Everything from that point owed a lot to the fact that Hull were scrambling, and had that pass down the line been slightly less well executed, that would never have been the case.

ben_stone12
10-11-2014, 04:31 PM
Ward,
He has proven experience both at international and premier level.
He possesses a great left foot, can pick a pass and deliver good crosses.
Has a strong nose.

Frenchclaret
10-11-2014, 04:56 PM
Mee for me. I thought Ward was a weak link at Arsenal, playing too narrow and leaving his winger in too much space. When he got close he was too easily beaten. I would play Mee and bring Ward on for Boyd after an hour.

Colburn_Claret
10-11-2014, 05:04 PM
Mee for me, there isn't a massive difference between them, so I would go with Mee's younger legs and give him the experience he needs at this level.

I thought Wards use of the ball 1st half Saturday was awful. He did improve a lot 2nd, and put in some good challenges when we looked like being pushed back.

RogerEliHatTrick
10-11-2014, 06:04 PM
Not a lot in it. Ward better going forward probably. Good that we have a bit of competition.

army88
10-11-2014, 06:33 PM
Mee is the better footballer, reads the game better , positionally better , heads a ball better.

I'm not sure there is any difference between them re delivering ball.

Both lack pace .

To be fair to Mee if he had more pace he wouldn't be playing at Burnley

warksclaret
10-11-2014, 07:03 PM
WE have seen the impact of Trippiers deliveries. As we have a lack of creativity on the flanks I think Ward gives us more options when pushing forward

Would keep Ward in though I think Ben is a better defender.His wekness is lack of pace and not a natural when he pushes up

herts_clarets
10-11-2014, 07:09 PM
I think Ward was instructed to play narrow against Arsenal to stop them coming through the middle. Dyche has touched on this before.

dougcollins
10-11-2014, 09:18 PM
Lafferty is the best crosser from the left.

Pity he messes all the other bits up..

lancaster100
10-11-2014, 10:13 PM
Ward, absolutely. Experience and skill and fleetness of foot and mind. He commands in front of him when Khightly goes roaming rather than ply his position. That said if we struggle in midfield on the left I can see Mee playing the defensive midfield role. Don't give up on Mee as he is as brave as a lion and his commitment cannot be faulted

fidelcastro
10-11-2014, 11:50 PM
"That said if we struggle in midfield on the left I can see Mee playing the defensive midfield role."

Erm... no he won't. :/

LincolnClaret
11-11-2014, 07:30 AM
I don't think anyone is giving up on Ben Mee. In my opinion he has a hige future at Burnley if he wants it. I've said for a couple of years that I see him as Shackell's natural replacement and I eventually see him as our captain.

hanoverusaclaret
11-11-2014, 08:56 AM
Ward for me. Much better going forward. Mee's distribution is appalling from the left and that doesn't cut it at this level. Ward was Brighton's player of the year last year so I think he will grow once he gets comfortable with his teammates.
I like Ben Mee. Good fella with the heart of a lion. Just not quite the finished article at this level and that has been very costly.
You need to possess the ball better at this level and that is not his strong point.
In honesty I don't think either him not Ward are really good enough as starting left backs at this level. Ward just edges it from what we have.

charlieinkentucky
11-11-2014, 10:55 AM
I think we look far more comfortable with Ward there.

Mee always looks like a Centre Half trying manfully to be a left back. Isn't lively enough going forward and too easily beaten for pace in behind. The build up to the plethora of crossed goals came from this. Makes up for it in spades with heart.

No, Ward isn't a world beater and yes, we did ship 3 at Arsenal, but only in the last 15 minutes when the defence was finally breached. And the Everton game, can't think of anything that came down his side. So about 250 minutes where his zone didn't concede anything.

Bin_Ont_Turf
11-11-2014, 10:56 AM
Never change a winning team. B)

Jamb0MackemClaret
11-11-2014, 11:00 AM
I'd wanted Ward in for Mee for a few weeks but he doesn't seem to be much of an improvement so far.

claretspice
11-11-2014, 12:34 PM
"thought Ward was a weak link at Arsenal, playing too narrow and leaving his winger in too much space."

This fundamentally misunderstands Dyche's tactical framework which is all about playing narrow and forcing teams to go round the outside of us. It worked well at Arsenal and Ward played his part in that.

As for whether he's an improvement, I come back to the fact that the quality of the ball into Ings for the goal on Saturday was excellent. Thats improvement there and then. There's a range and quality to his distribution that Mee doesn't have.

Jamb0MackemClaret
11-11-2014, 01:02 PM
"It worked well at Arsenal"

We got beat 3-0 and two of the goals were from crosses we didn't stop. Didn't work that well to my eyes.

Frenchclaret
11-11-2014, 04:02 PM
If he was playing to Dyche's plan why was Trippier not playing narrow as well? I return to my original statement, which you have abbreviated. I added "When he got close he was too easily beaten."
I have no agenda against Ward - just expressing an opinion on the Arsenal match as I was not at the Hull game. I still believe he was the weak link that day and remember that the first, important breakthrough was a cross from their right wing in acres of space. It could have been a lack of cover from our winger but they had so much room in that area of the pitch it was always a likely source for them.

corkcityclaret59
11-11-2014, 04:25 PM
Shame Mee does not have the physical presence to go with his obvious ability as a defender,Ward is probably a safer option at the present,vastly experianced,can't imagine a Rep.of Ireland team without him.

claretspice
11-11-2014, 05:01 PM
"If he was playing to Dyche's plan why was Trippier not playing narrow as well?"

Trippier did defend narrow. Just as he did in the home games against West Ham and Everton when we conceded goals to crosses from our right with Trippier still inside the penalty area. Its the way we've set up for the last 2 years to some extent, although Dyche has certainly emphasised it this year, right from the first goal we conceded all season against Chelsea when Schurle crossed for Costa with Mee defending the front post. Dyche believes first and foremost in making sure there are no gaps down the sides of centre halves because it forces opponents to play an extra pass (wide and then in, rather than through). It relies on wingers who can work back phenomentally hard. Gary Neville has done a couple of really good pieces of analysis on this this season.

It worked pretty well at the Emirates because we held out for 70 minutes and even then I'm not sure we didn't have enough men in the box to deal with

bodge
11-11-2014, 09:28 PM
From what i've seen so far it's Ward for me.

As spice rightly points out, i'm not sure Mee would have been capable of the clipped 9 iron style ball in to Ings. For want of a naff phrase Ward has the more cultured left foot.

Duffer_
11-11-2014, 09:46 PM
Mee for me. I want to see a bit more than one ball down the line before I give up on this... - view external link (http://tinyurl.com/m3z99wt)

barracuda
11-11-2014, 10:10 PM
Tough call ... but Ward

Boliclaret
12-11-2014, 09:22 AM
Tough call, I thought Mee reponded superbly after his mare against WBA and Ward got skinned a few times against Everton and Arsenal but was trying to play a bit more centrally and get forward more.

Mee is more gangling and tighter on his man but offers less coming forward, Shacks is having to come across more with Ward getting caught but Ward looks like a better footballer with the ball at his feet.

Ward for me, we need the left side to be as good coming forward as the right has been of late.

spunkybackpack21
12-11-2014, 10:12 AM
Not much between them defensively, but Ward uses the ball better so, Ward.

DiBraidio
12-11-2014, 10:25 AM
According to squawka Ward is better on the ball and he's also better in the air.

On that basis, Mee is on the bench for me. On the subject of Mee at Centre Back surely he's too small to be a top class Centre Half.

Jamb0MackemClaret
12-11-2014, 11:55 AM
Agree on Mee at centre-back - too small and probably too slow to be a top level player in that position. He'd probably get away with it in the Championship, but not convinced he could play higher at CB. And he doesn't attack well enough to be a top flight full-back either. Lots of time for the lad as he's one of the bravest, most whole-hearted players I've seen at the club, but I don't think he has that extra class you need to make it in the Premier League.

Rileybobs
12-11-2014, 01:08 PM
Agree with pretty much everything Spice has said. Mee's use of the ball was a weakness last season, this season it's more of a liability. You can't continually concede cheap possession in this division.

mkmel
12-11-2014, 01:56 PM
In our Development team that beat Sheffield Wednesday this week we had a back 4 of Reid Long Mee & Lafferty so I would have thought that Ben Mee was playing as a left sided centre back

Maybe that's where our club see his future with us as a centre back

DiBraidio
12-11-2014, 02:11 PM
I don't know if anyone has the stats on a team basis but one area where we fall down is or pass completion. We give the ball away too much.

I saw a comparison of right backs that was very complimentary about Tripps but finished with the conclusion that his pass completion, currently 64%, was woeful. Ward and Mee are on 73% and 74% respectively.

We have too many players that give the ball away too cheaply, as a comparison Elmohamady and Robertson have a pass completion percent of 77 and 78% respectively.

daveisaclaret
12-11-2014, 05:27 PM
Trippier is a better passer than Ward or Mee, he just plays more long balls and tries harder things. No need to get too involved in stats with no context because they aren't going to paint a full picture.