View Full Version : Newcastle were there for the taking

03-12-2014, 06:48 AM
Whilst I'm not arguing that 8 points from 12 is a return beyond most of our expectations and I'm delighted we've clawed our way out of the bottom 3, I can't help being slightly disappointed with the result last night.

Newcastle had a number of players missing and were very poor on the night. Even after we'd gifted them an equaliser they'd barely earned, they didn't really test Heaton for all their possession.

Our use of the ball in the second half, particularly in their half left a lot to be desired and only Ings ever looked like a threat.

On paper that looked like a tough game, but we played a poor side on the night and I can't help thinking that when that happens you need to take advantage if you're going to pick up sufficient points to survive.

This is a big transfer window coming up. We need to bring in a player or two who help us be that much more clever and incisive when it matters. Its key to picking up the points required.

03-12-2014, 07:03 AM
In truth two poor teams on show last night. First half championship stuff with aerial ping pong, second half Newcastle woke up.

Still a point is a point.

The Bedlington Terrier
03-12-2014, 07:54 AM
I don't think I go to some of the same games that others do!
A game of two halves which either side could have won.
Top quality opposition at the Turf again with lots of young fresh legs because of their injury situation.
Arfield, Marney, Jones and Trippier all had off nights but a point is point.
This was not Championship standard, if we had the resources on the bench that the Toon had we would be in the top half of the table.
On the way home last night other team's fans on Talksport last night were openly covetous of SD. If we can keep him we will stay up, of that I am certain!

03-12-2014, 08:00 AM
It seems to me - reading some posters on here - that when the opposition play well, then Burnley are poor, and when we play well, (as we have frequently done this season), it's not that we have actually played well, but that the opposition have been poor!
In other words we are always poor.
In my view to be out of the bottom 3 at this stage of the season is a remarkable achievement for a poor team.

03-12-2014, 08:03 AM
In my view to be out of the bottom 3 at this stage of the season is a remarkable achievement for a poor team.

My thoughts entirely nil_desperandum

The Bedlington Terrier
03-12-2014, 08:21 AM
No way is this team of ours a "poor team", unless the benchmark is Real Madrid. We are not a "poor team" in EPL terms, by any stretch of the imagination.

03-12-2014, 08:30 AM
Well said Nil-Desp.

I can't believe how short some memories are. It's less than two years since we watched a run of turgid Tuesday night performances at the beginning of Sean's tenure and many were calling for his head.

Last night we won a deserved point against a quick and talented side, not as depleted as some make out, who will finish between 8th and 10th.

We weren't great but I thought we matched them and I really enjoyed the game - this sort of thing, Tuesday night against Newcastle is pretty special.

03-12-2014, 08:42 AM
thought it was a decent enough game between two decent enough teams.

11 points and 4 games unbeaten is a decent run for any promoted side in this league. sure, we could have had 4 wins but this a very tough, unforgiving division and we're not at a level where we can expect such form just yet. that we're disappointed not to have 4 wins speaks volumes though.

we're a good team and we're doing well.

03-12-2014, 08:47 AM
Never cease to amaze me what passes for 'support' on this board.

Whatever happened last night, in a game we could have won, each player gave 90 minutes of full effort. Clearly some were not at their best but if we think back just 12 months I'm sure I'd have happily settled for a 1-1 against Newcastle in the Premier League.

I thought it was a good game, one we would have won last year but then again we would have had the Vokes - Ings partnership which I think would make the difference at the moment.

Well done lads, you couldn't have given more.

03-12-2014, 09:00 AM
Some real miserable t****rs on here.short memories a lot of folk.Give the lads a break for Christ's sake.we are doing brilliantly and far beyond what should be expected with our resources..

03-12-2014, 09:01 AM
"Never cease to amaze me what passes for 'support' on this board"

Trolls are usually "outed" during positive situations where they try too hard to bring their negative connotations to the fore.

I agree with OP Newcastle were there for the taking but the game hinged on us not making the most of our opportunities in the first half and Premier teams will always be able to change things off the bench.

03-12-2014, 09:02 AM
No way is this team of ours a "poor team", unless the benchmark is Real Madrid. We are not a "poor team" in EPL terms, by any stretch of the imagination.

Steady claret13552 You'll be telling me we dominate most games, a fact we patently do not.

If the benchmark is Hartlepool we're a helluva side...if it's the EPL we are a poor team fighting tooth and nail, with every ounce of energy to survive and making a fist of it I'm glad to say.

First half last night was our usual " Howitzer football " which Newcastle for some unknown reason indulged in. Second half they played quicker and on the deck and looked better. We have great difficulty getting out of our own half for more than 5 secs for long periods, hardly the mark of a good side.

03-12-2014, 09:15 AM
"It seems to me - reading some posters on here - that when the opposition play well, then Burnley are poor, and when we play well, (as we have frequently done this season), it's not that we have actually played well, but that the opposition have been poor!
In other words we are always poor."

nil_desperandum has got it spot on

03-12-2014, 09:36 AM
If the benchmark is Hartlepool we're a helluva side...if it's the EPL we are a poor team fighting tooth and nail, with every ounce of energy to survive and making a fist of it I'm glad to say.

Surely that is remotely positive lotty ?

However if you ever looked objectively at our club it might be a refreshing change. XD

In EPL terms we can hardly be described as good. Hard working yes...tenacious yes...disciplined yes...easy on the eye ...you're having a laugh. It's too much of a hard slog to stay in a game at this level to think of playing the beautiful game.

03-12-2014, 09:38 AM
I can sort of see where the OP is coming from we really didn't look like scoring a second goal.

After the comments from the Stoke match I did wonder if George Boyd went down clutching his head just to give the boys a breather when Newcastle were on top.

Newcastle's ascendancy only lasted about 15 minutes but as Dyche said, you can never expect to control a game for 90 minutes.

I thought for over an hour we were in control of the game but we really need to get the goals when we're ahead. We can't rely on scoring once and keeping clean sheets in order to win games.

The positive thing now though is that with Southampton, Tottenham and Liverpool all showing they're not infallible we can realistically hope that we'll take some points from our upcoming games. That's something that looked pretty remote four games ago.

My fingers are crossed for at least a win and a draw from our next four games.

03-12-2014, 11:49 AM
I too often wonder if I've watched the same game. Newcastle are fast, strong and have a good squad of players. Most have international experience with some good sides. After Saturday I said we'd struggle against Newcastle because we can't hand a team full of pace. In fact we did well and defended very well (expect for the goal, which are the fine lines of this league).

The miserable "Victor Meldrew" that sits behind me hasn't once said a positive thing about Burnley all season. I'm getting to the point where I'm going to snap at this guy. I;ve heard a few other around me snap at other "supporters" for moaning at everything. Arfield was a target last night for many in the Bob Lord. Pathetic.

03-12-2014, 11:58 AM
That Victor Meldrew sits behind me too.With a bit of luck he might have one foot in the grave.

03-12-2014, 12:10 PM
"In EPL terms we can hardly be described as good. Hard working yes...tenacious yes...disciplined yes...easy on the eye ...you're having a laugh. It's too much of a hard slog to stay in a game at this level to think of playing the beautiful game."

You don't have to be easy on the eye to be deemed a good side you know. At the moment we can definitely be classed as a good Premier League side- and because of the first three attributes you mentioned.

03-12-2014, 12:26 PM
I was trying to stress our positives rather than list all the things we are not claret78 such as adventurous, creative, fast, comfortable on the ball and watertight to a few

03-12-2014, 12:32 PM
It's not easy to beat sides like Newcastle but that will be one of the most winnable games of the season. QPR away on Saturday will be a lot harder for instance.

03-12-2014, 04:01 PM
"QPR away on Saturday will be a lot harder for instance."

Possible but I very much doubt it.

03-12-2014, 04:23 PM
First half Newcastle looked there for the taking.

Two half time subs smacked of panic measures, but actually transformed the way they played, and technically I thought Newcastle looked a good team second half.

After about 70 minutes I think both sides, and maybe us more than them (but that's marginal) decided to respect the point and not go for broke. Maybe that's the difference between being 1-0 up and conceding, and being 1-0 down then equalising and having all the momentum as we did on Saturday.

A few short weeks ago we were cut adrift at the bottom, and now we're out of the relegation zone. You'd have got good odds on that.

Saturday has the potential of another 3-3 classic, QPR have to come at us now, and Ings on the break was a menace again last night.

Can't wait.

03-12-2014, 04:26 PM
I think we might have to score 3 to get something out the game. They are quite attack minded QPR and will see us as 3 points.

Should be a good game.

03-12-2014, 04:42 PM
Into the second third of the season and out of the bottom 3, with the manager and players continuing on a steep learning curve. Not much separating several teams, and we are doing alright. Those rivals who thought we would quickly drop away and take care of one of the relegation places are now far more nervous.
Keep the faith, we can do this

03-12-2014, 05:39 PM
The only thing you can be sure of against QPR is that Austin will score. We'll need 2 goals to win that game, for certain sure.

03-12-2014, 07:28 PM
Unbelievable thread.

Yes, I too was a little disappointed leaving last night as I thought with a tad more composure and without the horrendous clearance for their goal, we might have sneaked the victory. But remember, Newcastle were high on confidence having just won 6 straight, they're in the top half of the table and were one of those teams that could have given us fits with their pace and counter-attacking ability.
In the end, they didn't really have many clear cut opportunities and Heaton had very little to do.

To say we are a "poor team" is just bull****. Once again, the lads put in a monumental effort against a team that cost millions to assemble and some people have the temerity to moan. Other than the poor showing at West Brom, we've put in really positive performances in every game.

It would be great if some fans could recognise where we are and what our manager is working with and start to exhibit the same positivity we regularly see from the players on the pitch.

03-12-2014, 07:34 PM
I have been pleasantly surprised in the last few days because I thought there was little (no) class gap between us and Villa/Newcastle. Both were nowhere near as good as I thought they'd be.The problem is that I then feel we should have won both games and we certainly had chances to do so. Villa (who did dominate the first half) fell apart in the last 5 minutes and we could/should have had 3 goals and all 3 points. Then we had enough chances in the first half last night to have been 2/3 goals up, but we weren't and we ended up with a point. A point is a point and I know every one is precious, but I worry that come reckoning up time at the end of the season the extra ones at which got away could prove the problem.

03-12-2014, 07:38 PM
Think the OP is pretty fair really, certainly hasn't deserved some of the frankly hysterical responses. We didn't play particularly well apart from a couple of nice moves in the first half and for me, both home games we've been below par against fairly average sides. Extending the unbeaten run is good, but with a bit more quality in the final third we could have won both matches and been in a fantastic position.

Once again, people are being called out for perceived negativity for thinking we're good enough to beat mediocre teams. Odd.

03-12-2014, 07:53 PM
I think the op is pretty much bang on in all seriousness.

If we have ambitions of staying in this division then we have to be winning games at home against sides as decimated as Newcastle were yesterday. I think we'd be realistically aiming for a point even if they were at full strength - they're going to be somewhere in the middle to lower mid table come the end of the season.

We were revert poor indeed in the second half, and our lack of composure and inability to retain the ball after taking a lead is a real worry.

03-12-2014, 08:27 PM
Pretty reasonable comments from the OP in my opinion.

As has been said, 8 points from a possible 12 is very good in fact it's excellent. It's an indication of how well we are doing when fans are disappointed in a draw against Newcastle who have been on a tremendous run of late.

I think we caught Newcastle on a bad night and probably should of won. What did disappoint me last night is that we seemed to have settled for a draw after about 70 mins rather than pushing for the 3 points. Everyone saw what an impact Wallace had when he came on against Villa and I really think he would of given us a real chance of going for the win had he been brought on. As it was we offered little in the way of creativity other than Ings causing them problems.

Personally still happy with the point, but probably could have pushed harder for all three.

03-12-2014, 08:56 PM
Tony and Nil desperandum,
I don't think that's the case at all, I'm a big advocate of our effort and results at the moment, but tbh both Villa and the Toon were better than us ---- even though we had better chances than both of them in both games .

Especially last night we lacked shape ( second half ) , and we did have under achievers on the pitchly Arfield who had his worst game tbh.

Sadly Ings is the only pace and real threat we have and tbh there isn't much service for him at the moment---- I can't understand why Wallace wasn't brought on for at least some part as against Villa he did deliver good ball and made a real difference.

We need width with pace to give Danny, Barnes and Vokes some service / chances to keep us up.

Also a bit surprised Chalobah isn't featuring at all , when he's been on previously looks composed, powerful and can pick a pass.

Required are a centre back , centre mid with wide man with pace .

Every team that comes has pace and width.

We've done well

03-12-2014, 09:02 PM
I think we really needed a win from one of those two games to get us to where we want to be at this stage of the season - bearing in mind the upcoming fixtures.

QPR will be tough but we do stand a decent chance as they are likely to commit to attack. if we can deal with Charlie as effectively as we did last time we played against then we can hit them on the break as they concede plenty.

Regards the quality of the opposition I think we need to take some of the credit for that. We are an awkward team to deal with and sides who look average or below par against us may well look more fluid against a different type of opposition.

Wallace - agree we would have stood a better chance of winning if he came on last night - but we would also have stood a better chance of losing as he lacks some of the defensive qualities of our other wide players.

I thought Villa had settled for 1-0 on Saturday and couldn't lift their game in the closing stages when we got at them. Different scenario last nig

03-12-2014, 09:19 PM
army88 - As you mentioned me and Tony.
I don't really understand your post.
Are you saying that you agree with us?, or do you actually think that we are "always poor", because your post suggests otherwise.
Maybe you misread / misunderstood my post?

03-12-2014, 09:24 PM
SOme good posts on this thread and some nonsense. If anyone can't see the blatant, and huge, difference between the pace and intensity of games this season compared to last then they must have some form of sensory deficiency. Teams in the PL don't give you a minute on the ball and can break with pace and kill you in a matter of a few seconds.
We are doing well and some of the criticism is just unrealistic really. We are never going to play beautiful football and dominate against the quality of opposition in this league and results, by any means, are hard to achieve. Always room for improvement but SD and the team are busting a gut and deserve praise and support.

04-12-2014, 06:19 AM
Nil desp, I was trying to say that I didn't think we were poor when they were good etc, so agree I suppose with your comments.

04-12-2014, 08:40 AM
"If we have ambitions of staying in this division then we have to be winning games at home against sides as decimated as Newcastle were yesterday. I think we'd be realistically aiming for a point even if they were at full strength - they're going to be somewhere in the middle to lower mid table come the end of the season."


i think you'll be surprised at where newcastle end up.

04-12-2014, 08:57 AM
For me I thought Newcastle looked a decent side, even with those injuries, although they didn't create much.

04-12-2014, 09:11 AM
Quoon - I think they had around 12 players unavailable. Some of those were key - Krul, Sissoko, Collocini and Colback.

They've had a decent run recently - but they did exactly the same last season around this time. Can't really see them finishing any higher than 10th.

04-12-2014, 09:20 AM
Can't see how Krul's absence particularly affected the game.
With regards to the other absentees, they were replaced by equally talented fit and fast young players, and they still had players on their bench who we couldn't afford to have on our books. Cabella coming on at half-time was a key moment.
It's arguable that the injured Vokes is far more key to us than any of those you mention.

04-12-2014, 10:01 AM
the thing is though Mat is that whilst i agree those four are first choice players, the depth of premier league squads is such that they can cope easily enough.

pardew said it himself before the game that despite the injuries and suspensions they had, they were coming to turf moor expecting to win. the two substitutions at half time were 10m cabella and taylor, who's spent his career (bar one season) in the premier league.

same with villa - they had vlaar and benteke missing. key players for them but still a good side and thats the thing - we're facing clubs where, to beat them, we're having to be at our maximum with our best team out, whereas they can draw on reserves who would likely be in our first 11 every week.

there has to be some realism about what we're dealing with.

04-12-2014, 10:14 AM
My thoughts exactly quoon, and after the game Pardew said it was a good result for them. So that's a compliment to us.

04-12-2014, 11:07 AM
Agree with quoon. They started with a team that had cost over 26 million and brought two subs on who had cost over 18 million.
They drew against a team which had cost around 6 million and they were happy with that draw, as Pardew stated after the match and again since his return to the north east.

If the boot had been on the other foot and we had had 44+ million pounds worth of players on the pitch, would our fans have been happy with a draw?
The disappointment to me was the fact that, in the first half, we had looked the most comfortable we have all season. Unfortunately, that was undone by Tripps having put his boots on the wrong feet at the start of the second half, these things happen.

04-12-2014, 11:33 AM
It's a good job results aren't solely decided by who has spent the most money then or there would be no point turning up. You might as well put the numbers in a spreadsheet and work out the league table from there. Remind me what happened when we played Manchester United earlier this season? They've spent a few bob and we matched them.

It's an excuse. Other clubs have more spending power but we can't just whinge about that every week. We are where we are, let's get on with it. We've already proved by beating Hull and Stoke that we can win against teams that have spent a lot more than we have.

04-12-2014, 11:59 AM
its not an excuse, its a simple fact. pretty much every other club in this division has a greater depth of squad than we have. nobody is moaning about spending power.

we matched man united, yes. we had to be at full strength and at our best to do so. that isn't going to happen every game at this level, its too much to ask.

its not about money, its about players. as claretMat said, newcastle had krul, coloccini, sissoko and colback out. if we'd had heaton, shackell, jones and marney out, do you think we'd have been able to match the side they were able to put out?

04-12-2014, 12:34 PM
It's a fact but it's still an excuse. Money ain't everything.

I don't see why not. Newcastle have won a few games recently but it's the same team that was second bottom not that long ago. They're not that good, just put some results together, like anyone can when they get some momentum.

04-12-2014, 12:50 PM
"Money ain't everything."

So why do so many people on here moan about the fact that we have only spent blah, blah, blah and we should have spent blah, blah, blah.

I couldn't give a damn how much we have or haven't spent on players as long as they try their best for the club. Some players were written off by fans before they had even kicked a ball because "that's what you can expect when you only pay x million"

So, I agree, money isn't everything. however, it isn't me you need to convert.

04-12-2014, 12:55 PM
"Money ain't everything."

odd statement considering how much bleating you did about us not being able to afford our targets in the summer.

as i remember it your solution was to simply 'increase the budget.'

04-12-2014, 01:06 PM
Agree with quoon on this. It's taking a huge effort from all concerned to bridge the gap. We don't have the quality everyone else has. We're basically still a team made up of really good championship players.

If they all run themselves into the ground, don't switch off for a second and feed off the admirable enthusiasm from the crowd thus far then we can make it look like we're a match for most sides.

But the fact is though I doubt we'll have any clubs in this league looking at our players other than Ings.

I'm enjoying it loads and I think it's brilliant how we're staying in contention but let's not kid ourselves that there's not much between us and Newcastle or that a team worth 40m is 'there for the taking'.

04-12-2014, 01:19 PM
Have to agree with the last few comments other than Jambo's . We're learning as we go along and improving all the time but we probably have the worst squad in the Prem in terms of quality and Prem experience .

If you look at the squads and compare them with ours it stands out like a sore thumb but what we do have is a squad and management team who are 100% together . After saying that as others have said that will carry us through to some degree but any small mistake will be punished unlike in the Championship so we have to be on top of our game for 90+ minutes every game .

I feel that many on here simply do not take into consideration the huge leap from where we were to where we are now and it's hugely depressing to see so many do nothing but criticise at every level . there doesn't seem to be any more leeway than there was in the Championship despite the huge difference in class and finances with many players earning money we simply cannot afford despite some questioning this by s

04-12-2014, 01:34 PM
Sadly there is now a very strong correlation between the spending power of clubs and their league position. In terms of league position we are a complete outlier, and that makes me immensely proud of our achievement. In virtually every game we are pitted against teams that can acquire, and have acquired, better players than us. That we have only lost 6 of 14 games at this level so far is a minor miracle. We have some good footballers but with the possible exception of Danny, we don't have good footballers who are also great athletes. Most Premier League teams have at least half a dozen. We can only compete with them through organisation, nous and sheer hard work; and sometimes even that is just not enough. No team in this league is there for the taking. I doubt we will thrash anyone this season, but with a bit of luck and a lot of sweat we may just stay up!

04-12-2014, 01:42 PM
It'll take time to build a squad good enough for the Prem and even if we achieve that it will take even longer to become a top half team which is about as good as we could expect .
Generally it's the same teams season on season at the bottom which shows just how hard it is .

04-12-2014, 02:23 PM
But Swansea survived comfortably in this division with a group of Championship players before they had the likes of Bony and Michu.

Surely we can do the same, but the club needs to be more positive and bolder at times, rather than the small club mentality.

04-12-2014, 02:42 PM
Swansea are the model to follow (and the exception which tests the rule. Their preparation for the PL started with Martinez. Funny to think that we used to discuss whether Coyle or Martinez was the better manager! Both Martinez and Rodgers shopped wisely both at home and abroad.

In 2013 their turnover was 67m (16th largest in the PL). In 2012 their player wage bill at 35m was the lowest in the PL so they didn't bet the ranch in year 1. They managed to establish themselves and their wage bill increased by about 40 per cent in their second season (17th in the PL).

04-12-2014, 02:47 PM
Would agree re Swansea .

04-12-2014, 03:01 PM
depends what you mean by bolder and more positive, spijed.

i don't think we have a small club mentality, but we know our limits.

interestingly, when they got promoted, swansea spent 7m on vorm, graham, lita + whatever they paid for routledge. they also brought in caulker and sigurdsson on season long loans.

7m would have just about covered one of our main targets this summer.

04-12-2014, 03:18 PM
Also it's a fair bit easier saying 'let's do a Swansea' than actually doing a Swansea.

I bet there's 72 clubs out there wanting to 'do a Burnley'.

04-12-2014, 04:11 PM
Exactly right Notts. Our model must be the second-most coveted by clubs outside the top flight. Swansea happened to have players who were probably better suited to the PL when they were promoted - more pace in the side and more technically gifted. Also, even over the past couple of years the gulf between the Championship and the PL has widened significantly - just look at the current bottom three.

04-12-2014, 04:13 PM
Not forgetting that Swansea had bigger crowds, a better setup and more backing when they got promoted.

05-12-2014, 09:10 AM
It seems to me - reading some posters on here - that when the opposition play well, then Burnley are poor, and when we play well, (as we have frequently done this season), it's not that we have actually played well, but that the opposition have been poor!
In other words we are always poor.

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

Another view would be that we've played well in the majority of games this season but that as much as it may hurt to admit it, our results/performances do largely depend on the opposition. Our squad (for reasons gone over at length elsewhere) is long on effort and commitment but short of genuine Premier League quality and gamechangers and generally delivers a similar, pretty decent level of performance. What that level of performance delivers in terms of points though largely depends on who we're playing against.

Manchester United, Sunderland, Leicester and Hull were all poor on the day (either through their own ineptitude, or inability to cope with ou

05-12-2014, 09:31 AM
Enola, do you really think that Hull, Leicester and other teams at the bottom are that much better than us?

I think you over estimate how good the teams at the bottom are. With Jones and Marney there is no way West Brom would have won so comfortably. Like us, Leicester have few match winners at this level, nor do QPR, Crystal Palace and Hull who barely mustered an attempt on goal.

05-12-2014, 10:07 AM
Only Villa and Hull have created fewer chances than us. Only Villa have scored less.

We're fifth bottom in terms of goals conceded.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where we need to improve.

We've scored more than one goal twice. We're going to have to improve on that if we want to stay up.

What's reassuring is that Dyche knows it and is working on it.

05-12-2014, 10:15 AM
It was blindingly obvious the budget or the targets weren't right since precisely none of the bigger reputation players we went for actually signed. But my point about money not being everything is more about where we are now. I don't see how it is helpful to keep labouring the point that other teams have more money. It didn't stop us being successful last season. It's not a contradiction that I felt we should have invested more in the summer but still think we can stay up with what we have, that's the faith I have in the players and manager we already had.

05-12-2014, 11:08 AM
Agree with the sentiments. What was lacking (in my opinion) was that as a team we were not in the faces of players making them pass immediately and make mistakes. Other games our players have been closing down more.

05-12-2014, 07:04 PM
Thought it was a game of two halves and a point was fair on the night for both teeams. Was well hp with result.

06-12-2014, 01:48 PM
And they have just proved they are no mugs by beating Chelsea so, either we played well to hold on and get a good point or they didn't play at their absolute best and we lucked a point.

I think it is a combination of the two. They didn't play particularly well but I didn't we did either and we got a good point from a team whose confidence has to be sky high after the run they have had since being joint bottom with us all those weeks ago.