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View Full Version : The Juke - Whats the solution?



Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 10:43 AM
Jutkiewicz (sp?) looks woefully short of confidence, form and recent appearances have been a shadow of his performances against Chelsea, Swansea and Man U. So whats the solution?

I was one of his vehement defenders after I saw him bully John Terry but after last night's abject display I'm beginning to question his place on the bench. Someone mentioned on the player ratings thread that it 'takes 10 minutes for him to get into a game', can we afford that type of player in the PL? With the soon return to match fitness of Vokes, is it worthwhile to send Juke out on loan to the championship to hopefully discover some form. More importantly, will anyone be interested?

I really hope he turns it around because he does seem an honest player who could do a job in the PL but it would seem it's all down to Dyche's man management skills now.

clansman
03-12-2014, 10:48 AM
I disagree about him being able to do a job in the premier league.
He is a nice guy and very enthusiastic but never in a million years even near good enough for this division.

TuftyBeamish
03-12-2014, 10:50 AM
In all seriousness, I'd cut our losses in January and sell him to anyone that will have him.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 10:54 AM
"but after last night's abject display"


Bloody hell - he was only on the pitch from the 85th minute

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 10:56 AM
I think he's what i call a 'battering ram' type of player in the mould of Lambert or Carroll but obviously needs to demonstrate a much bigger goal threat. His ability to win and shield the ball was second to none not long ago but, granted, last night was just rank.

I think we all need to remember those players who had bad starts to their BFC career and went on to do well (Blake, anyone) before writing him off completely but at this point in time, on current confidence and form, he doesn't justify selection.

I'm rooting for him but my patience is ebbing away faster with performances like last night.

EDIT - Tony he was on for five minutes but managed to look like he'd been on for 120. He contributed noting in the air, got possession and promptly lost it and gave their defenders their easiest 5 minutes of the night. Feel free to check the player ratings thread and you'll find I'm in the majority who think he had a shocker.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 10:59 AM
"last night was just rank"

I'll repeat - he didn't come on until the 85th minute.


A few weeks ago it was Barnes bashing on here - now it's Juke bashing.

Pathetic.

BabylonClaret
03-12-2014, 10:59 AM
Thats true Tony but he was pretty ineffectual. For me Sean got the sub wrong last night.

Either bring him on earlier and make sure you play to his strengths or try a different player to maintain the positive energy that Barnes had most of the game.

I'd have had Kightly on at around 60-70 minutes (probably for Arfield who looked a bit off the pace to me), and then if replacing Barnes either Sordell or bring on Wallace for 10 and move kights up to Barnes's position.

Once Juke came on we struggled to press at all up top.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 11:00 AM
How sad it is that some find the need to start threads criticising individual players every time we don't win.

Guich
03-12-2014, 11:01 AM
Give him time.

This is a very tough league to score in and there's more to his game. The pressure's off him a little as Ashley's doing a good job with Danny and so we can bring him on in situations ideally suited.

I think his first 10 games for us have been better, against better opposition, than Vokesey's first 10. And I'm a massive Vokes fan.

GrimsbyClaret
03-12-2014, 11:03 AM
As Tony said he was only on for a short while last night. So cant be judged on that.
I thought he should have scored at the end of Saturdays game not on target, but then Ings should have scored at the death too.
All the Juke needs is a goal or two then we will see the differance.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 11:05 AM
How sad is it that the moderator has to throw words around like pathetic towards posters who's opinions don't match his own, CT?

I'm disappointed in you on this occasion.

claret78
03-12-2014, 11:06 AM
Can I throw this out there - has anyone noticed that not a single player Dyche has paid any money for has been very good?

Let's hope the wallet stays shut in January.

TuftyBeamish
03-12-2014, 11:08 AM
All Juke needs is to actually become what he patently isn't; a goal threat of any description at this level(when he was barely one at the level below).

jedi_master
03-12-2014, 11:09 AM
claret78 - Boyd, Kightly, Barnes and Ward are all valuable members of our squad and all cost money.

sausages
03-12-2014, 11:10 AM
If anyone wants to improve any skill, whether it be hitting the target with a football, playing the violin, reading, swimming, ironing or anything else it's a question of practise, practise, practise, practise. Practise is what every one of our players will be doing every day.

mickleover_claret
03-12-2014, 11:11 AM
Scary to think of the proportion of our summer spending that went on Jutkiewicz. Works hard but don't think he'll be troubling the bench once Vokes is back.

claretspice
03-12-2014, 11:12 AM
Someone mentioned on the player ratings thread that it 'takes 10 minutes for him to get into a game', can we afford that type of player in the PL?

It was me who made that observation (may have been others too). But note that when Barnes was on the bench and had half hour cameos, he also struggled to make an impact - more so than Juke on Saturday when he had a fair chance to get into the game (I agree with Tony that its absurd to judge him on 10 minutes last night). Very few players at any level find it easy to pick up the rhythm of the game immediately, but it must be even harder when you also start with the handicap of being an inferior player to your opposite number. That's the challenge most of our subs have and I think its why they're finding it especially difficult to have an immediate impact.

I'm no great fan of Juke and I've said from day on that I think he lacks the finesse and subtlety of touch to make it at this level, and unfortunately current evidence isn't proving me wr

the_quoon
03-12-2014, 11:18 AM
"Feel free to check the player ratings thread and you'll find I'm in the majority who think he had a shocker."

i think its a bit daft rating any player's performance as 'a shocker' on only 10 minutes. its pretty rare that any player makes an impact in that time.

for all the pelters jutkiewicz is getting, i wouldn't be surprised if vokes makes a similar start to life in the premier league.

MDWat
03-12-2014, 11:18 AM
Barnes certainly showing himself as the better option. Done really well in the last 3 games.

5 minutes or not last night, Jutkiewicz was woeful.

claretspice
03-12-2014, 11:21 AM
"5 minutes or not last night, Jutkiewicz was woeful."

Point is that's not the point. 5 minutes isn't long enough for any player to get into the game. So he's allowed to be woeful in a cameo that long and he certainly shouldn't get pelters for it.

If you want to blame anyone, I'd question the manager who gave him a run out too short for him to make a real contribution. I thought there was plenty of scope for Juke to come on a good 10 minutes earlier, by which time Barnes had long since faded from the game.

claret78
03-12-2014, 11:24 AM
Boyd- average
Kightly- average
Juke- below average

I thought Ward was free apologies

Sordell - below average
Barnes - average

Whereas Frees:

Heaton - awesome
Arfield - Fantastic
Jones - brilliant

Just thought it a bit strange.

FCBurnley
03-12-2014, 11:26 AM
Judging Juke on the whole season to date and not on the last 5 mins. I would say he is not good enough for the PL. Probably a decent Champs player but certainly not PL quality. He is honest and hard working but thats it. Once Vokes returns and if Ings stays he is unlikely to get much if any playing time. If SD thinks he is good enough then maybe a loan spell to regain confidence would be the solution.

stevie_thunder
03-12-2014, 11:30 AM
"A few weeks ago it was Barnes bashing on here - now it's Juke bashing"

Lucky we don't have a player called Bishop.

LincolnClaret
03-12-2014, 11:32 AM
It was simply the wrong substitution. We just needed someone to make a nuisance of themselves for the last 5 plus added time and Juke was the wrong choice last night.

As soon as he came onto the pitch I said I felt we should have brought Sordell on. Marvin isn't a world beater by any means but we could have tried to get over the top of their back 4 with his pace and used him to run into the corners if required.

The main problem for the Juke personally is that he looked like a fan who'd won a competition to play 5 minutes to be honest, he really was that bad, and I can't see him getting much game time once Vokes is fit again if he has many more cameos like last night.

snapcrackleandpop
03-12-2014, 11:38 AM
Dress it up however you like but Barnes and Juke are just not good enough for this league, if you compare them to what is needed at this level i.e. Ings or Austin.

Pidgeon
03-12-2014, 11:57 AM
Its not just about 5 mins in last nights game. He has had plenty of PL game time and has failed to score one goal. Sordell must be really poor if Duke gets the nod. In terms of what we should do .. I'd say get shut asap.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 12:08 PM
"Duke"


It's Juke as it happens

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 12:09 PM
"How sad is it that the moderator has to throw words around like pathetic towards posters who's opinions don't match his own, CT?

I'm disappointed in you on this occasion."


Not half as disappointed as I am at your opening comments about him, and my comment was made as a poster, not a moderator.

Goodclaret
03-12-2014, 12:22 PM
I'm not sure you can just ignore Jukes performance due to only being on the pitch from the 85th minute plus 4 minutes stoppage time. Dyche clearly wanted him to get on there, hold the ball up and take some pressure off our midfield/defence? Well that's what I wanted him to do and he didn't do it. He lost the ball easily and didn't offer a massive amount of energy if I'm being honest.

I've liked what I've seen of him as a player and his attitude is obviously good. I think a few posters are just accepting he may not quite be the answer to our PL questions.

I'll continue to back him and truly hopes he bags the winner at Loftus Road on Saturday.

One thing for sure is this season is brilliant. I'm loving (almost) every game and the commitment from this set, sorry group, of players is fantastic. Being disappointed by "only" drawing against Newcastle is a mighty fine feeling.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 12:25 PM
Which of my opening comments were you disappointed with?

The point I made about him being out of form and not looking as good recently, the point where I said he impressed me vs John Terry but has looked poor recently, the point I was asking about how we can help him or the point I raised about wanting him to turn it round?

Maybe it's the point I made about me thinking there's something there to use in the PL?

Seems you've focused on a tiny element of my overall positive post and labeled it pathetic.

As has been posted above, he spent 9 minutes on the pitch by the way.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 12:48 PM
I firstly commented on your abject comment and I described your comment of him being 'just rank' as pathetic. And I won't withdraw it because I do think it is pathetic.

Bin_Ont_Turf
03-12-2014, 12:52 PM
I've noticed that the posters who call Juke, 'the Duke', all have one thing in common.

Strange but true.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 01:04 PM
You're entitled to your opinion CT, it's just a shame you don't seem to think I'm entitled to mine without your comment.

Again, disappointed. I'm sure I'll live though.

I stand by my comments on his performance last night and in his recent cameos. I also hope he can prove his worth in the team going forwards.

oldcolner
03-12-2014, 01:07 PM
The solution is to lay off him, give him a big cheer and hope he scores. Sam Vokes used to get this in his early days. It really does no one any favours. We are supposed to be supporters after all. Too many are detractors. Yet we are now out of the bottom three and a win at QPR would help keep us out. Please get behind him and the rest of the lads / group.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 01:15 PM
Aside a groan when he ran into Newcastle players and lost possession, I can't think of any negative reaction he got on the Turf, Oldcolner.

I'm pretty sure he's a long way from the 'support' that Iwelumo got.

Even on this thread, there's only a minority who have written him off so I would suggest that support on the Turf is the last thing that needs addressing to help the Juke get over his current run.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 01:17 PM
"You're entitled to your opinion CT, it's just a shame you don't seem to think I'm entitled to mine without your comment."

You posted your opinion on this message board with one intention, to get comment. Unfortunately, for you, we didn't all agree with you and I, for one, thought your attack on a player who came on in the 85th minute was ridiculous.

Leave a rider next time saying you only want agreeable comments.

moggybfc
03-12-2014, 01:22 PM
I really do feel sorry for our players, if Jukes scored the winner on Saturday against QPR, he would still get slaughtered.

Give our players a break frigging support them.

I do agree about 5-6 players are not prem standard, but they are clarets players and we should be backing them not slating them.

If they dont score and put 100% effort in then thats fine with me.

How about putting Boyd up front with Ingsy and putting kightly or wallace on the wing.

PapaBendi
03-12-2014, 01:23 PM
I get to limited games these days but when I saw him at home versus Sunderland earlier this season I thought he looked a real threat and was v impressed.

The last few times I have seen him on TV he has looked a shadow of that player and last night he looked like he had his diving boots on to coin a Stan phrase. Leggy and unsure and not looking like he belonged on the same pitch... And he was only on the pitch for 10mins as CT said.

Time for a complete rest for me and I am sorry if that opinion upsets anyone.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 01:28 PM
'Leave a rider next time saying you only want agreeable comments. '

Here's a rider for you - Pot kettle black.

Try leaving the 'pathetic' comments at home when commenting on an opinion which doesn't match your own. You're right that I posted my opinion for comment and I've respected all those that don't agree with it, even yours. You won't lure me into a tit-for-tat insult match however much you want to start one, mind.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 01:31 PM
I don't think I've ever described anyone's performance as abject when they've come on in the 85th minute of a game, not have I used the word rank either. And you get upset with pathetic!!!!

No further comment.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 01:39 PM
So you were taking offence on Juke's behalf? Makes sense now.

Put a rider on which players under-performances we're not allowed to comment on in future and I'll do my best to stay away from them.

ClaretTony2014
03-12-2014, 01:48 PM
"So you were taking offence on Juke's behalf? Makes sense now."

Don't be ridiculous.

The Bedlington Terrier
03-12-2014, 01:56 PM
Having watched the lad for us this season and from reading previous comments on the 'Boro and Bolton fans forums I hate to say that I don't think even SD can work the magic this time. The Juke does not look good enough at this level but how he can be criticized for not doing it with nine minutes of playing time last night is a tad harsh! I am however, still having nightmarish flashbacks from the sitter he missed in the Villa game!

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 01:59 PM
'I don't think I've ever described anyone's performance as abject when they've come on in the 85th minute of a game, not have I used the word rank either. And you get upset with pathetic!!!!'

So there's no link between my opinion of Juke's performance and you describing that opinion as pathetic? Hmmmm.

Seems you got all worked up about my opinion of a players performance and chose to attack. It's not unreasonable to assume you got offended on his behalf.

Anyway, I'm drawing a line under it from my side. I invite opinions and comments and welcome those who can do it without resorting to insulting other users opinions.

TuftyBeamish
03-12-2014, 02:08 PM
Interestingly, the report in today's Lancashire Telegraph list Jutkiewicz as an unused sub. They weren't too far wrong.

Boliclaret
03-12-2014, 02:15 PM
To dispel the Sordell or Jutkiewicz argument, I think Dyche went like for like with the added option of having someone who could win headers in his own penalty area.

It would have been an absolute kick in the nuts if we'd have lost that game in stoppage time.

Alp12Mac
03-12-2014, 02:48 PM
Ineffectual and pointless substitution in my opinion. He couldn't keep up when tracking back and lost control and possession of the ball in the centre circle when there wasn't a player within 5 yards of him.

Apart from that he was brilliant.

In response to the OP's question, I don't know the solution because he was relatively good in the first few games, winning headers, holding the ball with his back to goal and bring others into play. Recently, his struggles to do any of these basic functions is baffling to say the least.

lotty1
03-12-2014, 02:54 PM
Confidence - or lack of it .

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 02:57 PM
The turning point seemed to be the Everton game, which is strange because he did provide a cracking assist to Ings. Unfortunately misjudged a few headers in that game which must have rocked his confidence.

He needs to get the monkey off his back with a goal, then hopefully he can return to his start of season swagger with more goal threat.

That said, on current form, once Vokes is match fit, I think he'll struggle to get into the match day squad based on Barnes run of form at the minute.

dallasclaret
03-12-2014, 02:58 PM
The problem Juke has got is he is a completely different player to what we have got. Ings and Barnes run their socks off and chase defenders down all the time. Juke looks sluggish in comparison and seems to take that extra second to react which at this level cannot be done.

That's not a criticism, it's just an observation of his playing style and ability. He can't give what he hasn't got and unfortunately that is pace and quickness of thought at this level...

I'm more disappointed with the Sordell signing tbh, he has pace but in the few times he's brought on he lacks the aptitude to chase that Ings and Barnes display.

Jamb0MackemClaret
03-12-2014, 03:00 PM
If we can get back to the matter in hand away from petty rows because folk have different views and talk about Jutkiewicz's lack of overall form again... I don't think there is a solution. He needs a goal. But he doesn't look close to getting one. Maybe he should play some development squad football and try to build some confidence up. When Vokes is back it might be worth sending him out on loan to get some football in the Championship as we can't start him at the minute, he looks a long way from good enough.

It's a confidence issue for me. He started the season well and has had some good games, particularly at Leicester where I felt he gave their defence a real going over. But if you've not a non-scoring striker I think you're carrying him and we can't afford to do that. There's enough pressure on Ings as it is. Barnes is hardly prolific but he's scored some key goals and his build-up play is no worse than Juke's.

He did fall over from his first touch last night so five minutes or

ChristheViking
03-12-2014, 03:53 PM
He reminds me a bit of Steve Thompson. A reasonable player and one who holds the ball up well for us. I thought in the early part of the season some of his link up play was outstanding.

However, as I used to say re Gifton, his primary aim is to put the ball in the net. He's been unlucky a few times but if he'd scored in the 1 on 1 vs United and buried that header re Villa we'd be 4 points better off.

I see him as an impact player as he was on Saturday. Am not convinced he's a starter though.

Opinion above based on season to date. Agree it is very harsh to judge a sub on 5-10 mins play in one game.

Doddsy36
03-12-2014, 04:01 PM
I'd have Steve Thompson over Juke any day of the week. At least Tommo had some fire in his belly and put himself about. It's clear that Juke is way out his depth in this league and would it would probably be the same in the championship, the only thing to do is get rid asap and sign somebody in January or even possibly give the young lad Gilchrist? a do as he seems to score quite a few for the reserves

forzagranata
03-12-2014, 04:38 PM
I think the heart of the matter is that Dyche clearly has looked to players he thinks have potential, who we can afford and who he might be able to improve or get the best out of in our system.

We have had some successes with signings like Arfield and Ward who have looked at home in the Premier League despite career paths that might have suggested otherwise. Barnes is a player that has obvious limitations but who really does seem to be improving.

Juke falls into the category of an Arfield style deal (albeit one that cost us much more) that so far has not (yet) come off in the same way.

He doesn't look anywhere near Premier League quality yet and when Vokes comes back he is surely falling down the pecking order.

dougcollins
03-12-2014, 04:46 PM
The main issue I had with Juke was letting Steven Taylor run past him on at least three occasions - like he wasn't there.

Steven Taylor, ffs.

Boliclaret
03-12-2014, 05:51 PM
Doug, If anyone wants an indicator of Jutkiewiczs lack of pace it was when the commentator used the phrase "and Taylor skips past the Burnley substitute"

Skips!!, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. :(

arise_sir_charge
03-12-2014, 07:05 PM
The fairest solution for all concerned would be to shoot him. They do that with lame race horses.

SteakPuddChipsNGravy
03-12-2014, 07:43 PM
everyone is entitled to an opinion and here is a great place to express it however, in my opinion, some of the views expressed on this thread seem a tad strong. Juke is a Burnley player and doing his best.
I hope, for the sake of his self-esteem, that he does not read this message board. If his confidence is low, which it might well be, reading this thread would not help him to feel any better about himself/improve his game etc

1959_60
03-12-2014, 07:45 PM
"How sad it is that some find the need to start threads criticising individual players every time we don't win"

Absolutely CT. Except that it is the same predictable suspects - and they find something to moan about even when we win.

I have noticed that there is about twice as much traffic on this board when we lose.

Some people had the white flag up after 8 games. "We will never escape from the bottom three" was one comment I remember."Pay peanuts and you get monkeys" was another from one of our "supporters".

The lads are obviously giving their all and we cannot ask for more. In fact, they should expect our full support. And I believe that ultimately it will prove to be enough for survival at least.

If I were Sean Dyche I would pin some of the comments on here in the dressing room wall to act as a motivational tool.

It's not supposed to be like this.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 07:52 PM
'Predictable suspects'
'Some of our 'supporters"
'The lads are giving there all'
'They should expect our full support'

Superfan bingo - Eyes down please

Non uber-positive comments are allowed 59-60.

bfcjon
03-12-2014, 07:59 PM
Doddsy,...that"s the biggest pile of crap i have ever read!!!

To say the Juke does not put himself about!!!

Steve Thompson, maybe 10 years ago??

As for Gilchrist it is apparent he is not ready yet...

Get a Grip.

1959_60
03-12-2014, 07:59 PM
"Non uber-positive comments are allowed 59-60"

Just one or two faintly positive ones would be helpful Darthlaw.

Darthlaw
03-12-2014, 08:02 PM
Read my OP, feel free to pick any of them such as my belief he has a part to play in the PL or that I hope he can turn it round.

Form is temporary, class is permanent. Lets hope for the latter in Juke but not kid ourselves that he is not lacking the former currently.

dallasclaret
03-12-2014, 08:47 PM
"supporters"


eh ??

I think you mean "customers"