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irish_claret
06-12-2014, 12:06 AM
On the Manchester City Tickets thread I put the following:

If anyone has sensible suggestions for a fair system (maybe based on how other PL clubs achieve the balance between long term season ticket holders and newer fans/ season ticket holders who attend lots of away matches) you might want to post it on a thread I will start. The Club are listening.

The Club really are listening and I would hope that we have an opportunity to put forward ideas for them to consider.

Fire away...

bodge
06-12-2014, 12:14 AM
Tell us how many fans could qualify if 3500 points is the qualifying amount for the first tranche of tickets.

I thought i would easily get a ticket for Citeh but missed out on the first batch.

daveisaclaret
06-12-2014, 12:17 AM
The premise of this OP being that the club has gone about City tickets in the right way is beyond laughable if we're honest

irish_claret
06-12-2014, 12:21 AM
Good idea - gives a bit more transparency. Although I would imagine that the first tranche (in many cases) would probably start at 5000?? Just guessing here...

How about a very limited on sale period - say 2 to 3 days max for 5000, then a further 2-3 days for 3500 etc...?.

(btw bodge...good morning from Bolton Road)

irish_claret
06-12-2014, 12:23 AM
I'm not certain that that is what I'm suggesting...it's clear to a blind man on a galloping horse that the way the City tickets sale was organised was wrong in every way imaginable...

Claretforever
06-12-2014, 07:27 AM
Ensure the system itself isn't flawed first!!

I've only got about 1,200 points or so, and had a heated discussion at the ticket office in the summer about it.

Since the points system was introduced I've only had 4 season tickets (13-14 prior to this), but haven't attended less than 12 home games per season. Sometimes up to 20, plus usually average 4-8 away.

I always have to give my address so they could get my details up, and add my Claret number on the bottom. My points only reflect my season tickets and nothing more. I found around 15 or so old stubs over various seasons (I didn't think to keep them all) as proof that they haven't added the points. They accept they haven't added them but not sure why, and would only give me the points for the stubs I had. I can understand that point, but having gone to the trouble of proving they have a flawed system then surely they could have done something.

Something has fallen down badly with that system. It's a joke and I have no faith in i

claretspice
06-12-2014, 11:14 AM
Ok - here goes:

Start with an acknowledgment that the current system is a mess and that mistakes have been made. I've heard more mea cuplas in the last year from the government than from the club despite a catalogue of fiascos.

Secondly, accepting that the current system doesn't work, set clear principles to apply to all high demand away games until May. If 5,000 loyalty points is the benchmark, fine, stick with it and give all of those with enough points a decent opportunity to buy tickets before opening up to those with 3,500, then 2,000 and so on.

Thirdly, launch an open consultation on how to reform things next summer. My view - reconfigure tge system so points more than 3 years old decline in value by 25% per year until points earned more than 7 years old become worthless.

Finally, review the points structure for future seasons so in effect each game purchased at home gets the sane number of points. A season ticket should he equal to 23 home game purchases - if season ticket h

Claretforever
07-12-2014, 07:47 PM
^^^ This actually sounds like a good idea. People who haven't had season tickets for a good number of years, or barely attended in that time, shouldn't get priority over people who have had season tickets or been regular ticket purchasers over the past few years.

dougcollins
07-12-2014, 08:16 PM
We do need to avoid the myth that the away game followers are a cavalier secret society of non-season ticket holders.

Most away fans are also regular ST holders.

ChorltonCharlie
08-12-2014, 12:42 PM
The club wonít be able to keep everyone happy, for instance Spice makes some good suggestions, but it wouldnít be my personal way of doing things. So rather than saying what the rules should exactly be, Iíd suggest these kind of principles...

Transparency Ė make it known how many tickets weíve been allocated and announce the rules at the start of the season and stick to them. The current practice of constantly changing the way tickets are allocated just makes the club look unprofessional.

Innovation Ė itís 2014, we shouldnít need to guess what demand will be like, or have an antiquated system. Invest in a top notch web site and back end database (I know I could write the back end for them, so it shouldnít be hard to find a supplier with the skills to build a system to meet requirements). Why does there need to be cut of points and the like for 5000 points, 3,500 points, etc? Just apply for tickets and going off the clubs rules, if you Ďdeserveí one, you get one. Yes, there may be som

spijed
08-12-2014, 12:52 PM
"The current idea of also giving current ST holders priority over everyone else, no matter how many games people have attended is totally unfair."

That has to be the way. It should be non negotiable. Otherwise, what's the point of getting a season ticket if one of the benefits is removed?

half_pound_of_tripe
08-12-2014, 01:31 PM
The main issue here is one of perspective. The OP sums it up in the first line when it mentions "fair". Unfortunately away ticket allocation will never be "fair" in the few games where we have a demand greater than supply. Last season it was one game (Blackpool), this season it'll be a few more. "Fair" in the eyes of the supporter is one thing, but the club want to change fan behaviour so they stop it being "fair" and make it easier for some groups of fans.

The club might have tweaked points thresholds and availability periods but they've stuck to their main principle of awarding season ticket holders. Why? Well at the start of last season our season ticket numbers dipped dramatically. If we'd been in a relegation battle the finance would have been dire. It was only season ticket holders who had committed money up front who could be relied on. I wonder what our attendances from the walk ons would have been? Obviously a lot lower.

So the club will continue with the points and that's

VinRogue
08-12-2014, 02:49 PM
Getting a ticket for an away game of your choice should not be the sole right of a season ticket holder. Not every supporter can attend all home games or in some cases afford to attend all games.

Firstly it should be agreed that a loyalty points system should be run over say 3 seasons and then re-set. Why? This allows all supporters a chance to gain/catch up when the new period starts.

To start the new AWAY points system all current supporters with over 300 points could have 2 points,301 - 3000 3 points and over 3000 4 points.

Every away game attended would attract 1 point.

I personally have over 3000 so using me as an example and my grandson who has 0 points this is the new seasons away games.

I have 4 loyalty points he has zero and the seasons fixtures look like this:-

Brentford away he goes I don't. 4 pts 1 point
Bournemouth away he goes I don't 4 pts - 2 pts
QPR away he goes I don't 4 pts - 3 pts
Derby away we both go 5pts - 4 pts
Sunderland away he goes I don't 5 pts -

half_pound_of_tripe
08-12-2014, 03:07 PM
Which would be a great scheme VR if the club cared about non season ticket holders getting away tickets on games where demand out strips supply. But they don't. They care about making it more attractive to buy a season ticket as this is where they get a guaranteed season worth of tickets being sold upfront.

titsoutforthelads2
08-12-2014, 03:09 PM
The main problem with your suggestion VinRouge is that neither you nor your son would have enough points for Man Utd away so there would be a further debate.

ClaretTony2014
08-12-2014, 03:12 PM
"They care about making it more attractive to buy a season ticket as this is where they get a guaranteed season worth of tickets being sold upfront."


Rightly so, and like every other club.

aggi
08-12-2014, 03:38 PM
When people talk about the bigger clubs and how they manage their away ticket sales a lot of them have away travel schemes where you pay to be eligible to buy away tickets, maybe we should look at this kind of scheme.

IanMcL
08-12-2014, 04:15 PM
Put those who must stand at the back

VinRogue
08-12-2014, 06:00 PM
It is only a suggestion based on the question. Me and my grandson would be in with a chance of tickets for Man Utd based on my blue print because, it is the 5th away game of the season so the maximum points anyone could have would be 8. Englandfans used to in my days of following England produce lists of how many fans had how many points. So in this case perhaps only 200 BFC fans starting this period with 4 points went to Bournemouth, Brentford, Derby and Sunderland and so have the maximum available.

I agree it is a question of do our board value away support enough to put a simple fair system in place? englandfans went one step further and only allocated 70% of tickets on Loyalty Points and 30% by ballot if my memory is correct? But I hope you get the gist?

The Bedlington Terrier
08-12-2014, 07:47 PM
Tickets simultaneously go on sale in person at the ticket office, via online and via the 'phone. First up - best dressed! When they are gone, they are gone. End of! How is that not fair?

ChorltonCharlie
08-12-2014, 08:27 PM
Spijed Ė ďwhat's the point of getting a season ticket if one of the benefits is removed?Ē Ė for all the Burnley fans I know, Iíve never heard one say ďIím thinking about not getting a season ticket, but worried I may lose my right to apply for an away ticket like itís 1989.Ē The main benefit of getting a season ticket is that itís a hell of a lot cheaper. I think for most fans thatís the main reason they buy a season ticket, along with more minor reasons such as convenience and habit. The club also offer discounts at the club shop, an ridiculous amount of extra loyalty points and priority on away tickets. This is what I mean about differentiating between customers/fans. Why treat people so differently who can actually put a similar amount of money into the club? Itís a terrible way to treat customers. No oneís saying donít give ST holders perks, but make sure they arenít to extortionate levels as they are at the moment. As a season ticket holder you would automatically have more points

Goody1975
08-12-2014, 09:34 PM
Season ticket holders are five star fans because no matter how well or how poorly the clubs does in a particular season they pay up front and in the modern era that could be more than four months prior to a ball being kicked for the early birds, i'd suggest the supporters who are unable to purchase a season ticket for whatever reason are less likely to venture to Turf Moor on a cold wet Tuesday night in December when the club are in the the middle of a Cotterillesque shambles like Blackpool are at the moment.

That doesn't mean they are less of a supporter but the facts speak for themselves, when we do poorly the number of walk ons decreases and when we do well the number of walk ons increases.

titsoutforthelads2
08-12-2014, 09:37 PM
Well said Goody, true friends and family are there when you really need them.
Through the bad times aswell as the good.

claretspice
08-12-2014, 10:19 PM
"The main benefit of getting a season ticket is that itís a hell of a lot cheaper."

With respect, this is just not correct. Its cheaper, but not "hell of a lot" cheaper. In fact, in terms of cost per game attended, I reckon my season ticket has worked out cheaper in 1 of the last 4 seasons, and you don't need to be Einstein to work out it was last season when I got to 20 of 23 home games. When you strip out missing the odd midweek game due to work commitments, a couple of Saturdays a year when there's something else on like weddings and the like, its tough to get the advantage of the 4 games free or whatever it works out to.

There are lots of reasons people get a season ticket - cost hasn't come into it for me. Largely its because I like where I sit, and because I'm guaranteed a ticket to all the big games with a good vantage point. But yes, priority for the big games down the years which are over-subscribed is another factor which might just persuade me in the fallow years - like in

ChorltonCharlie
09-12-2014, 11:14 AM
Spice, I recognise that there are other benefits, that is in my post above. The biggest benefit for most will still be cost. You are like a couple of mates of mine who buy a STís even though they know they will miss games. Iím sure most ST holders donít miss a game, or at least only one at most. For these people it is far cheaper. Certainly this season the savings are huge if bought in the early bird period.

After a few years off here, itís amazing how little people read what has gone before. Has it always been like this or is it a new thing? I havenít ever said that ST holders shouldnít get benefits. My 5 star comment was actually saying that they should be rewarded for their loyalty. My argument is that the club treats all its other supporters with apparent disdain. It starts coming across more as penalising non ST holders, rather than benefitting ST holders. Even so, in response to Goody, the fairweather fans wonít attend enough home matches to be a challenge to people who are ST h

wilks_bfc
09-12-2014, 11:40 AM
The biggest issue seems to be that the "new members" never catch up due to not having enough points to purchase tickets in order to build up their points which causes difficulty when trying to get a group of tickets when all at different points - a situation that we are currently at for the Newcastle game.

Could the allocation be split as a ratio to be available by points?
50% of allocation to 5000+ points
35% of allocation to 3000-5000 points
10% of allocation to 1000-3000 points
5% of allocation to under 1000 points

Goody1975
09-12-2014, 04:30 PM
I certainly think the points for year on year loyalty should be rewarded but having a season ticket five years ago shouldn't mean as much as a current one and should have a reduced effect.

blake123
09-12-2014, 06:36 PM
The answer buy a season ticket works out cheaper on the day and get's you loyalty points as well simple really.