PDA

View Full Version : Bournemouth as blueprint...



DavidR__9
03-01-2015, 09:28 PM
says Raynor. But their philosophy seems fundamentally different.

Bournemouth don't make 10 or 11 signings every summer. They signed four players this close season, for example. Interestingly, after coming up from League One, they made five signings in the summer and a couple more in January. They recruit players, usually young players and develop them. They very rarely use loans to supplement their first team, but do loan players out who can't contribute to the first team or need experience. And when those players come back from loan, they take their place in the first team. There's a plan, a system, progression.

What does Raynor suggest we're going to do, having been tonked by Bournemouth's not quite first choice 11? We're going to ship some out and get some more in, presumably on loan (because TS is surely wary of signing 2 or 3 year contracts on Championship wages with relegation at least a possibility), with a view to overhauling the squad (again) in the summer.

Maybe, along th

the_idiotb_stardson
03-01-2015, 09:49 PM
"The fetishising of the "new approach" troubles me"


David I have to agree. The impact of the new style has been grossly exaggerated.

tivoliman415783
04-01-2015, 07:32 AM
The new style nonsense has had no impact at all.
It has had no impact on results.
In one respect SE has been lucky with the fixtures to cover for this style talk.
We failed to beat an out of form Cardiff, likewise with forest (Rochdale will agree), got beat 2-0 by Huddersfield with the new style but happened to score 2 in the last minute when we ditched the style and went direct, failed to beat the worst championship Side ever in Blackpool on two occasions and got a good result at Wigan (but the goals came from a poor pass back and a set piece - nothing to do with our style).

ANY strengths of the style came through Lawrence's ability and not our way of playing.

With how relatively easy our fixtures have been in the last 6 games where we have used this new system there is just as much a case to say that our results in these games could lead to relegation than help us stay up.

We have the likes of Bournemouth, Ipswich, derby in the next group of games - had to see any points and in a

swintondude
04-01-2015, 07:42 AM
In my opinion we are in a false position at the moment. We are bottom 3 material all day long. It's already been pointed out that we have failed to beat the worst the league has to offer and now we have to face the big boys. I really cannot see how we can get out of the hole we are in. Our only hope is that there are two teams worse than us.

There are lots of players out of their depths in this league and i include SE in that statement

tivoliman415783
04-01-2015, 08:08 AM
Hard and unfair to say we are definitely bottom 3 material because were not in the bottom 3 and every team has played each other now.
I am sure fans of millwall, Blackpool and Wigan are saying similar things!

We do need January to work well for us though in the transfer market.

one_a_day
04-01-2015, 08:45 AM
So when we finish the season in 21st place shall we say to the football league that we finished in a false position and can we be relegated please?

gramiller1959
04-01-2015, 08:48 AM
Hard and unfair to say we are definitely bottom 3 material because were not in the bottom 3 and every team has played each other now.
I am sure fans of millwall, Blackpool and Wigan are saying similar things!

We do need January to work well for us though in the transfer market.





without a settled team i can only see us struggling :(

S66RedArmy
04-01-2015, 08:52 AM
Always enjoy reading your posts David, an articulate and highly accurate summary.

And the blueprint for Bournemouth ... They very much remind me of Swansea City during their ascent. A young manager with progressive ideas using a model to develop the team through evolution over a sustained period of time. You rightly point out they have spent significant money doing so - reported 3m for Wilson, 1.5m for Rantie, 500k for Ritchie and presumably high wages for Gosling and Surman from the premier league. Quality over quantity however.

Putting our position in perspective however it's always worth remembering the facts from the official Deloitte football finance report for Championship season 12/13, the latest available. Peterborough had the lowest wage bill of 6.2m and were relegated. Wolves imploded but the survivors that year Barnsley 4th from bottom and Millwall 5th from bottom had wage bills of 7.7m and 12.1m respectively.

Is an unspoken conclusion from your post David that Evans

rufc1986
04-01-2015, 10:27 AM
It is always difficult to read a David Rawson post and to take things holistically. Every point he makes must be taken in context with this article.

http://thetwounfortunates.com/rotherham-united-no-longer-the-same-club/

Basically, if you don't have the time to read it, it illustrates his despise at us appointing Evans, and that we will never be the same club in his eyes. He has demonstrated throughout Evans' reign at the club, mainly through posts on here and on Twitter, that whenever something doesn't go right, he feels Evans is out of his depth. Which is just not the case!!

You also have to factor in, that he is very articulate, and can put an article together, that is not the case, but makes it look as though due to his excellent use of words. Unfortunately, although some of us understand Football, we do not have the same ability when it comes to the use of the English Language, and this puts his argument in a different light to many.

Let's start by putting things into Fact! We

swintondude
04-01-2015, 10:31 AM
It was interesting till you claimed they have a big squad like us.

They have 26.

Please do some research before you add to the misinformation

rufc1986
04-01-2015, 10:48 AM
It was interesting till you claimed they have a big squad like us.

They have 26.

Please do some research before you add to the misinformation

Ok, I didn't count their Squad, but I make it we only have 27, so the point still stands we both have large Squads doesn't it?

swintondude
04-01-2015, 10:58 AM
As Huddersfield have 39/40 and Wigan 39, they are big squads.

You only have to look at the back of the programme at every home game to see how small our squad is.
Even Blackpools dwarfed ours and they only had 6 players at the start of the season

ghost_of_dusty_m
04-01-2015, 10:58 AM
Very good post david.

After sleeping on things I have calmed down a bit. I do think evans wasted money in the summer and the splatter gun approach transfers with quantity ovef quality hoping that if we shuffle the pack enough we hit the right combination isnt the way especially with a low budget like ours.

looking at the stats though, our high number of draws is costing us and that goalscorer could be all we are missing if only to buy us time tillthe summer...

as I sit thinking about it, in the summer keeping smallwood, tavs, vukic (to playin the hole like lawrence) new striker and replacement to agard if he didnt want to stop, rb, cb, would have sufficed. Thats 7 weve brought bout 13 in. Quality over quantity. We are told transfers fees not the problem wages were well half the playefs double the wages. Injuries are covered by what we have on the book, youth team loans etc. Colin gets injured we usethompson or a loan.

ghost_of_dusty_m
04-01-2015, 11:06 AM
Squad size should have been 18-20 plus youth team and max 4 loans...super low yes but filled with quality. Rose, rowe, walker and yates would have been in and around the 1st team more and with injuries or suspensions they woukd have had to play or got a loan in.

riccallmiller
04-01-2015, 11:24 AM
Cracking post RUFC1986.

dmentor
04-01-2015, 11:30 AM
Its ok saying use Bournemouth as a blue print,but TS is not Russian and he's certainly not a billionaire.

S66RedArmy
04-01-2015, 06:22 PM
RUFC 1986 : referencing your earlier response to DavidR9s initial post, everyone has their opinion as paying fans but I can't see where anyone said that "our recruitment hadn't brought in better players". A debate should be supported with more robust facts.

Evans recruitment has worked brilliantly in the lower leagues but is definitely open to question in the championship.

And "dominating for 70 minutes against Blackpool should not be forgotten". Really? I was there. What shouldn't be forgotten is we played our strongest side including loanees and couldnt win. Only 2 points out of 6 against the whipping boys who are 25/1 ON with every bookmaker to go down. Doesn't exactly instil confidence.

Are Brentford fans "over-reacting after losing at home to a very poor Brighton side". Irrelevant comparison. Brentford have won 12 games this season compared to our 5. They spent 500k on Andre gray after proper scouting who has scored 9 league goals compared to 6 league goals from our 3 permanen

ghost_of_dusty_m
04-01-2015, 07:00 PM
Im saying that we havent brought in better players.

The 1st 11 and bench we took to wembley was stronger than that on saturday (and Huddersfield and Blackpool and...).

Greens been okay but no better than smallwood or freks and jch shows potential but is not 1st 11 chamionship standard yet ( tho the kid will be given time). me one player we have signed thats an improvement on wembley last year...

Hall...no, brandy...no, loach...no, wood...no, broadfoot...no, derbyshire...no (tho I admit thats a suprise), bowery...no, richardson...possibly there but its boadline, sadler...no, newton...no (like jch one with potential tho),

with a low budget we should have aimed for a small squad with quality, better than we have signings. Our policy was to gamble on bringing in a big squad full of castoffs and hope if we shuffled the pack enough times we would end up with a winning hand...

the real kicker is im not saying we are a bad side. At the end of last season we were half a dozen signin

Val_Mascal
04-01-2015, 07:41 PM
[quote="S66RedArmy". A debate should be supported with more robust facts.

Evans recruitment has worked brilliantly in the lower leagues but is definitely open to question in the championship.

And "dominating for 70 minutes against Blackpool should not be forgotten". Really? I was there. What shouldn't be forgotten is we played our strongest side including loanees and couldnt win. Only 2 points out of 6 against the whipping boys who are 25/1 ON with every bookmaker to go down. Doesn't exactly instil confidence.

Are Brentford fans "over-reacting after losing at home to a very poor Brighton side". Irrelevant comparison. Brentford have won 12 games this season compared to our 5. They spent 500k on Andre gray after proper scouting who has scored 9 league goal

ida
04-01-2015, 11:50 PM
Utter hyperbole from David.

Just because he hates evans and Raynor doesn't mean he has nought to say. It just means it's biased from a negative point of view.

He makes good points about player attributes but I'm not buying the constructive criticism of Raynor and the management by a cheap comparison with an excellent bournmouth side and then crucifying him for the use of the word blueprint.

For goodness sake, it wasn't meant to be taken literally. It was, as 99% of language is, purely symbolic. Mr Raynor is not employed as an engineer.

RawmarshMiller
05-01-2015, 03:57 PM
Steve Evans will always be divisive, that is the nature of the guy. In spite of his transfer policy or because of it, we find ourselves in the Championship following back to back promotions. You cannot fault the guy for what he has achieved. You can question how it has been achieved certainly, but not what he has achieved.

You could say he is ruthless, after only a handful of appearances players such as Nicky Hunt and Lawrie Wilson were moved on or that he is fickle - why was Swift or the kid from West Ham never given a go? But again, he delivered 2 promotions back to back.

Of the current squad he has brought 7 from league 2 plus 4 from league 1. OK we have signed 13 players in the summer and by and large none of them have proven to be a hit. But, again, he isn't pontificating and waiting that one of them may come good, he is acting by moving them on.

Look at the signings. On paper, with the exception of possibly Sadler they all looked good.

One is a current international, one is a

howdydoo
05-01-2015, 04:26 PM
Rawmarsh

FFS stop this rational thinking right now.

howdydoo
05-01-2015, 04:30 PM
This erm blueprint:

Can we get a Russian Sugar Daddy too?

People need to take a long hard look at the Bournemouth P&L and e balance sheet.

Do people so easily forget our recent past?

We must have the most idiotic fans in Britain.

BradfordFozzie
05-01-2015, 04:31 PM
[quote="RawmarshMiller"]Steve Evans will always be divisive, that is the nature of the guy. In spite of his transfer policy or because of it, we find ourselves in the Championship following back to back promotions. You cannot fault the guy for what he has achieved. You can question how it has been achieved certainly, but not what he has achieved.

You could say he is ruthless, after only a handful of appearances players such as Nicky Hunt and Lawrie Wilson were moved on or that he is fickle - why was Swift or the kid from West Ham never given a go? But again, he delivered 2 promotions back to back.

Of the current squad he has brought 7 from league 2 plus 4 from league 1. OK we have signed 13 players in the summer and by and large none of them have proven to be a hit. But, again, he isn't pontificating and waiting that one of them may come good, he is acting by moving them on.

Look at the signings. On paper, with the exception of possibly Sadler they all lo

ColinRUFC
05-01-2015, 04:34 PM
And every rufc1986 post should be read remembering that it was him personally that persuaded Steve Evans to become our manager.

BradfordFozzie
05-01-2015, 04:43 PM
This erm blueprint:

Can we get a Russian Sugar Daddy too?

People need to take a long hard look at the Bournemouth P&L and e balance sheet.

Do people so easily forget our recent past?

We must have the most idiotic fans in Britain.

Wednesday fans would run us a close second...

riccallmiller
05-01-2015, 07:51 PM
Every time we get beat the knives come out for Evans.

rufc1986
05-01-2015, 10:27 PM
And every rufc1986 post should be read remembering that it was him personally that persuaded Steve Evans to become our manager.

And all I get for it is abuse! You wouldn't believe he'd win consecutive Promotions! I even got stick for backing King Ronnie, but things will never change.

I'm glad we can shed light on David Rawsons comments though. It shows that no matter how articulate he maybe, the points are pointless as his hatred for Evans clouds his judgement.

Keep going Steve, I'm confident you'll keep us up. See you at Brentford!