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1959_60
08-11-2015, 10:22 PM
I never was. No one ever truly believed in being allowed to write absolutely anything about any one.

Charlie Hebdo's latest piece of "satire" consisted of two cartoons making fun of the recent Russian plane crash which killed 224 people(see link).

Yes, we should have freedom of speech but we also need moral boundaries. What is fair game...and who decides?
Charlie Hebdo has, for me, crossed the line too many times. - view external link (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/08/russians-vent-anger-at-charlie-hebdo-on-socal-networks)

Bin_Ont_Turf
08-11-2015, 10:28 PM
The Russians can certainly make more of a mess of the Charlie Hebdo offices than a bunch of lunatic mussies.

1959_60
08-11-2015, 10:35 PM
No doubt Bin. Charlie Hebdo are certainly raising their game.

Bin_Ont_Turf
08-11-2015, 10:41 PM
Poking fun at religion is fair game.

Poking fun at a disaster and dead people is a bit too far for my liking.

butterflyvenom
08-11-2015, 11:57 PM
But it isn't poking fun at dead people is it?
The sad reality is events are moving at such a pace that most of us can't even register shock and horror anymore.
In essence we should all value freedom of expression, the french massacre now seems just like another small story from some time ago unfortunately.
Beach killings in Tunisia, many hundreds of beheadings, executing women and children, and now a bomb on a plane in retaliation for Russian involvement in the Syrian debacle.
Russia is dangerously getting involved in a stupid political chess game out there.
Satirists won't stop and quite right too.

BereavementDividend
09-11-2015, 12:02 AM
I think Charlie Hebdo does a good job at reporting news in a way that makes you actually take note about it. In this case, a tragedy, of course, but making a point of what is indeed going on politically with Russia and the rest of the world, regarding the terrorist threat.

Freedom of expression and speech is a fundamental human right. There's no such thing as a right not to be offended.

GRAPIDIANCLARET
09-11-2015, 12:02 AM
Russia has been involved in the mess that is Syria since well before day one of the civil war.
Satirize Putin, he deserves it, leave the dead innocents alone.

butterflyvenom
09-11-2015, 12:05 AM
"Leave the dead innocents alone" you sound like a Sun editorial. I can almost hear the screechy banner headline tone !

butterflyvenom
09-11-2015, 12:10 AM
"Oi, you Frogs, leave those dead innocents alone, and whilst we're at it you garlic loving surrender monkeys"
etcetera, etcetera, ad infinitum, "OUR BOYS !!, BIG T**S. X FACTOR SCOOP !, GAZZA GETS DRUNK, .lOONEY LEFTIES, OUR BOYS AGAIN, SUMMAT ABOUT KERRY KATONA!!!!!!!!!.

BereavementDividend
09-11-2015, 12:13 AM
There was once a massive outcry at how offensive and disgusting an episode of Brasseye was, regarding *****philes and the media's take on sex offenders etc etc, all whilst being reported in a newspaper that was suggesting how "grown up" certain celebrity children looked in their "bikinis" etc when they were like 14 years old.

butterflyvenom
09-11-2015, 12:29 AM
Mainstream dullards lap all all the tabloid slop.
That's why Jeremy Kyle succeeds.Also dross like loose women, and Eamon Holmes .
The majority don't want complex debate, why should they when influential newspaper/media barons can manipulate their opinions en masse with simple trickery.
The irony is, multi millionaires dictate political doctrine to a mindless herd who cannot wait to be told how to behave and vote. They are easily twisted into shape and rewarded with a vile spew of daytime telly and celebrity gossip. Once there is anything serious to think about, the soaraway Sun will tell them how to deal with it. That's why we have a conservative government . Democracy is a sham. At least the French have a pop at original thought now and again.

BereavementDividend
09-11-2015, 12:32 AM
The French also know how to kick off en mass what they don't like something.

GRAPIDIANCLARET
09-11-2015, 12:43 AM
BV are you labeling me a 'sun' reader?

Bin_Ont_Turf
09-11-2015, 12:44 AM
'But it isn't poking fun at dead people is it?'


Do shut up you ranting headcase.



http://i65.tinypic.com/qsrxts.jpg

butterflyvenom
09-11-2015, 01:03 AM
BOT is a fine example, anything which requires a modicum of thought usually causes a simplistic bout of antagonism.
His type cannot cope with much beyond shopping channels. You're GP can provide help Bin.

DiBranchio
09-11-2015, 01:28 AM
BOT has a point, though he may have overstepped the mark with the word 'ranting'

butterflyvenom
09-11-2015, 01:58 AM
You see folks, what Di Branchio did there was highlight the the word ranting , but disregard the other part of the insult. thereby suggesting I am nuts after all.
Ha ha, bloody ha, . Oh, you are so incisive. Why don't I just come over to our side?

GRAPIDIANCLARET
09-11-2015, 02:12 AM
Being nuts would be putting it mildly.
You highlighted my dead innocents comment and then ranted,yes ranted about millionaires and sun readers.
Do you remember what the sun did after Hillsborough?
Idiotic ranting at that.

TuftyBeamish
09-11-2015, 08:53 AM
In answer to the OP's question; yes. I am still 'Charlie', because I still think that murdering cartoonists in cold blood for the 'offence' they have caused you is a completely disproportionate reaction, and that Freedom of Speech includes the freedom to offend.

The Bedlington Terrier
09-11-2015, 09:57 AM
I still find it very difficult to understand why the Russians are bombing Syrians. The Malaysian airliner shot down in the Ukraine and the probable airliner bomb explosion over Sinai has resulted in the deaths of 500 innocent travellers. Satire for me, should not be on the agenda. We live in dangerous times and I can see nothing that suggests these futile deaths are going to end anytime soon. Cameron, once again fails to seize the geopolitical initiative.

Balanbam00
09-11-2015, 12:17 PM
I would say the Russians are bombing Syria ,in order to help President Bashar Assad to keep him in power ,Putin needs that market and anywhere else in that region, especially in the Middle East. If Assad falls ,he has lost his foothold , it will not stop at Syria but anywhere he can get in. The Russians are not only bombing they have sent not only fighter jets, bombers and helicopters, but also missile systems, As Hezbollah are fighting together with Assads forces, Israeli Air Force planes have launched two strikes on Hezbollah and Syrian army targets overnight Friday, according to social media accounts linked to the Syrian opposition.

NottsClaret
09-11-2015, 12:41 PM
I suppose it depends on why you were 'Charlie' in the first place. If it was solely because you don't like angry muslims much then you might have gone off it now.

If it was because you think people should have the right to 'offend', even if this time you're the one being offended, then you possibly are still Charlie.

I didn't like the Russian plane cartoon at all but I'm happy they're allowed to print it.

evensteadiereddie
09-11-2015, 02:03 PM
Dead right, Notts.
"Private Eye" usually carries at least one letter per edition where some reader purports to be outraged at the insensitivity of the cover picture or an article or cartoon inside, followed, of course, by the inevitable subscription cancellation.
The whole point of satire is surely to look at a subject or issue from a different angle and with this comes a real risk of certain readers feeling uncomfortable. I'd prefer that to constantly swallowing the guff that the professional fraudsters - politicians - continually feed us. Their actions have to be questioned, nobody else seems to have the guts to point out any other possible unpalatable shades of opinion.
And I'm afraid that anyone who thinks that image is poking fun at dead Russian air passengers really does lack basic understanding.

bluelabrador15
09-11-2015, 02:41 PM
Criminalization of Anti-Israel Activism Escalates, This Time in the Land of the Charlie Hebdo “Free Speech” March......By Glenn Greenwald

"..The absurdity of France’s celebrating itself for free expression was vividly highlighted by this week’s decision from that nation’s highest court, one that is a direct assault on basic free speech rights. The French high court upheld the criminal conviction of 12 political activists for the “crime” of advocating sanctions and a boycott against Israel as a means of ending the decades-long military occupation of Palestine. What did these French criminals do? This:

The individuals arrived at the supermarket wearing shirts emblazoned with the words: “Long live Palestine, boycott Israel.” They also handed out fliers that said that “buying Israeli products means legitimizing crimes in Gaza.”

In France — self-proclaimed Land of Liberté — doing that makes you a criminal....

....It is perfectly legal to advocate sanctions against Iran, or Russi

GRAPIDIANCLARET
09-11-2015, 04:02 PM
If you are saying it does not make fun of dead russians then you are obviously prepared to argue black is white and vice versa.
Basic understanding.Boll***s!

evensteadiereddie
09-11-2015, 06:03 PM
Of course, it's not you clown, it's making the point that cutting corners whether in terms of air-worthiness or security on the ground will have inevitable results. It's also probably a dig at Putin's aggression - even our berk, Cameron, has sensed the danger of that particular course of action.
I'm not aware of Charlie being the mouthpiece of the French government, bluelab, I think the mag has its own agenda.

GRAPIDIANCLARET
09-11-2015, 06:29 PM
Thanks for clearing that up ,it must have been the make up running into my eyes.
The calling certainly aids you in your sound reasoning.
What is a cartoon?
Simple question?
What is a caricature, another simple question?
Are they tools of the humourist?
And if so what is a humourist?
3 simple questions from the teary clown.

evensteadiereddie
09-11-2015, 06:33 PM
You said it, bud.
Three very interesting questions. Are you actually trying to make a point and, if so, any time tonight would be useful....

GRAPIDIANCLARET
09-11-2015, 06:41 PM
My point refers to the opening posters response to my comment on the dead.. It is making fun of dead innocents. End of.
It does so to achieve its aims whatever you or I might interpret those aims to be.

evensteadiereddie
09-11-2015, 06:45 PM
Making fun or pointing out the grim ironies - as you say, it's a matter of interpretation.
Some people choose to be offended or pretend to be (see today's Sun, apparently Corbyn didn't bow his head ffs), others prefer to think further and more deeply about an issue's complexities.

GRAPIDIANCLARET
09-11-2015, 06:52 PM
I refuse to touch the sun.For those reasons and others.

evensteadiereddie
09-11-2015, 06:56 PM
Indeed.

bluelabrador15
09-11-2015, 07:15 PM
evensteadiereddie......"It's also probably a dig at Putin's aggression........"

What are you on about?