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jdrobbo
22-11-2015, 07:27 PM
I thought that Zamora was excellent for Albion today. Won almost everything in the air and he seemed to find his partner with almost every knock-down/ lay-off.

However, Greer and Dunk at the back for the Seagulls were immense. Physical, but not OTT,won challenge after challenge and truly showed their experience at this level when it mattered.I thought Dunk handled Gray particularly well, as let's face it, Gray must be a nightmare to play against.

Lewis Dunk is 24 years of age. If, and it's a huge IF, we were to get promoted and Brighton were to remain in this division...then he'd be right at the top of my shopping list. I could see a brilliant partnership between Keane and Dunk. Anyway, that's me dreaming....but I thought the aforementioned defenders definitely deserved singling out for their excellent performances.

nil_desperandum
22-11-2015, 07:32 PM
Agreed.

bodge
22-11-2015, 07:33 PM
Agreed thought they were very good as was Zamora.

You can see how hard to beat Hughton has made them, no Lua-Lua and more of a shape like we have.

Fulham were in for Dunk in the Summer.

scouseclaret
22-11-2015, 07:34 PM
Dunk was good but the ref was very lenient with him - lot of short-tugging going on.

cheshireclaret
22-11-2015, 07:35 PM
And I thought you'd posted on here to to slam dunk. Pathetic, I know.

ClaretMoffitt
22-11-2015, 07:37 PM
Honestly for me it was Bruno that stood out for them. Thought he was excellent.

Rowls
22-11-2015, 07:49 PM
Brighton were better all round than I'd expected.

A well drilled, well organised side with no weak links.

Not much spectacular going on but that's a winning formula for the Championship level.

dougcollins
22-11-2015, 07:50 PM
A 'keener' ref could have given them problems with early bookings today. They took a lot of liberties.

And what turned Zamora from the 'Can't run, can't jump, can't be arsed' lump he was at QPR into what he was today? Same manager as well, strange.

Rowls
22-11-2015, 07:53 PM
True doug, but they played within how he reffed the game. The only fault I had with the ref was he started booking players after 70 minutes for offences he'd previously let go.

But that's about the ref. Greer and Dunk were doing to Hennings and Gray what Keane and Duff should have been doing a lot more of to Zamora.

They were only doing what we want our own centre backs to do.

ClaretTony2014
22-11-2015, 07:54 PM
God solid defenders at this level but another referee on another day would have carded them early and they would have had to play differently

kaptin1
22-11-2015, 08:20 PM
Dunk should have seen yellow for the penalty and should then have been sent off for the challenge on Gray as that would have been his second yellow.

the_quoon
22-11-2015, 08:23 PM
well drilled defenders but i wouldn't have either of them.

moffit is right about bruno.

minniemouth
22-11-2015, 08:48 PM
Agreed they were good but if we need a CH next year Williamson, on loan at Wolves, would do on the cheap.

enola_gay
22-11-2015, 09:16 PM
Played to the limit of the referee. Unfortunately for us the referee was an utter bottle job.

An official doing his job properly would have pinged them earlier, and seeing how they'd have approached the game then would have been interesting.

Ashingtonclaret46
22-11-2015, 09:31 PM
*bleep*="dougcollins"]A 'keener' ref could have given them problems with early bookings today. They took a lot of liberties.

And what turned Zamora from the 'Can't run, can't jump, can't be arsed' lump he was at QPR into what he was today? Same manager as well, strange. *bleep*

doug -- when did Chris Hughton manage at QPR?

matty1294claret
22-11-2015, 09:31 PM
Dunk is left footed too, would slot nicely alongside Keane. Think Fulham tried getting him in the summer, saw bids rejected around 4/5m.

dougcollins
22-11-2015, 09:49 PM
I blame the wine. Hic.

DarkCloud
22-11-2015, 09:51 PM
What struck me about Brighton was that they didn't just play lots of neat passes in defence/midfield like loads of teams seem to do ( but actually never really show any penetration). Brighton were far more concerned with end product than most teams (rather like ourselves) which was refreshing to see. Zamora was really good and I was glad he tired and went off. However, without ever hitting the "heights" we still made 2/3 great chances to win it in the second half and we may come to rue that, despite SD putting a positive spin on it all.

Qcumber
22-11-2015, 10:51 PM
I disagree, a stronger ref would have booked one of them early doors and prevented challenges that occurred later on.

wherewasi
22-11-2015, 11:04 PM
I liked the ref today. Barring one occasion which I thought should have been yellow he gave a free-kick when it was needed and that was it. That's how I'd like football to go back to being refereed.

tybfc
23-11-2015, 12:26 AM
Not convinced with Greer but Dunk is an excellent player.

Had a Brighton ST holder with me as a guest today and he said that once they had scored they would shut up shop and play for the point and I think that he probably got it about right.

butterflyvenom
23-11-2015, 01:09 AM
I didn't dislike them , thought they had some luck with the roughhouse tactics and a poor ref.
Mostly impressed though, some big lads but with flair. They were busy and effective in most departments.
Unless something drastic afflicts them, can see them staying the course and finishing top.

HunterST_BFC
23-11-2015, 01:29 AM
I think Germaine Greer should be Dunked.
.. there is witchcraft there!

Edit
Oops sorry, wrong message board

... XD

The Bedlington Terrier
23-11-2015, 01:45 AM
Three Seagulls fouls on Mee should all have seen a yellow card, Dunk was taking liberties all afternoon but he managed to keep Gray at bay (more or less!). Oh Scotty!

claretspice
23-11-2015, 12:25 PM
Thought they were both good - Greer has been a good performer at this level for years. Not sure I agree with the comments about the ref - Duff is a master of the cynical shirt pull or trip and has been for years, so if we want refs waving cards like confetti for those sorts of incidents we'd do well to think about what that might mean for us. The late tackles by Brighton players were a different matter mind and I was surprised that one or two of those didn't result in bookings earlier, but then Barton and Duff also got away with a couple so perhaps there's an argument that was simply consistency.

the_quoon
23-11-2015, 01:00 PM
"Duff is a master of the cynical shirt pull or trip and has been for years, so if we want refs waving cards like confetti for those sorts of incidents we'd do well to think about what that might mean for us."

to be fair, i think most people wouldn't have a problem with it. if you're stupid enough to pull someone's shirt, you deserve the booking. i've given duff plenty of grief (also marney and wallace) for committing needless fouls like that.

constantly letting defenders get away with such tactics ruins the game, so i'd rather it was stamped out early on, regardless of whether our players are the culprits.

shirt pulling anywhere on the the pitch is a yellow card so why wasn't dunk carded for the penalty? really, really weak refereeing.

i said on another thread that i'm always up for letting the game flow and letting things go when its an honest attempt at a challenge but that sort of **** needs cutting out straight away.

Jamb0MackemClaret
23-11-2015, 01:12 PM
Weird that the ref gave us a soft penalty and people are whinging he didn't book enough Brighton players.

domclaret
23-11-2015, 01:15 PM
Weird that fans want refs to book players who repeatedly foul ? Not half as weird as your sentence

lotty1
23-11-2015, 01:17 PM
It was only a soft penalty in the sense that referees don't normally give them but fair play to Hooper and if more gave them it would help eradicate the way over the top wrestling at corners and set pieces . If you watch the incident in it's entirety it was a blatant penalty and the referee was in prime position to give it .

Jamb0MackemClaret
23-11-2015, 01:39 PM
I thought Brighton bent the rules rather than broke them most of the time. A couple of players could have had yellows but the ref was fairly lenient on that front. And I've watched the penalty plenty - I think it was soft, but give-able.

claretspice
23-11-2015, 01:46 PM
"shirt pulling anywhere on the the pitch is a yellow card so why wasn't dunk carded for the penalty?"

I don't think it is, I think its a yellow card if its regarded as a professional foul, i.e. you've deliberately prevented a clear advantage. I'm not sure Keane was in a position to score with the header - had he been, it might have been a booking, but actually the award of the penalty gave us a better chance of scoring than we'd have had without the foul so I don't have a problem with the ref deeming that sufficient punishment (and it was an absolutely blatant pen, by the way - Brighton's complaint appears to be akin to the fella who gets pulled for doing 85 on the motorway - you don't always get caught).

the_quoon
23-11-2015, 01:51 PM
"you've deliberately prevented a clear advantage"

same as any other foul then.

lotty1
23-11-2015, 01:57 PM
According to regulations confirmed at last year's World Cup shirt pulling is an automatic yellow card .

Ashingtonclaret46
23-11-2015, 01:59 PM
"you've deliberately prevented a clear advantage"

"same as any other foul then."

Very true, however, not every foul is a yellow card. Nothing in the Laws which states that shirt pulling is a cautionable offence -- it is how the referee interprets the incident. He saw it as a foul -- it was in the box, therefore, a penalty. I don't think that Brighton can have any complaint, just as we wouldn't have a valid complaint if it happened to us.
Referee consistency though - that's another matter. Mind you, if you knew the directives that the PL referees are given you would be quite surprised, to say the least.

nil_desperandum
23-11-2015, 02:01 PM
"you've deliberately prevented a clear advantage"

"same as any other foul then."

Not really. Fouls can often be the result of a slight infringement in a 50 / 50 in an innocuous area of the field, and quite a number of fouls are just a result of stupidity where the perpetrator can't gain any advantage. (e.g. the ball is already going out of play).

claretspice
23-11-2015, 02:01 PM
I didn't know that Lotty, but if so fair enough. However, I've seen shirt pulls given as free kicks all over the field this season without resulting in a yellow card. If Keane had given Dunk a sly tug of the shirt rather than the other way round, would there have been brickbats flying for the ref for not carding im for that? Not sure there would.

lotty1
23-11-2015, 02:15 PM
I just believe all this wrestling in the box at corners and dead ball situations needs taking out of the game . It's something that has crept in over the last few seasons and is so obvious at times it's almost laughable . I'm fed up of seeing referees spotting it and delaying the dead ball kick , warning the players involved and then allowing the kick to be taken and watching it all happen again whilst penalising no one . It's a difficult job and maybe they've been told to sort of ignore it . I'm sure there was a discussion about it on here a while ago where Tybfc's brother said that was the case but I stand to be corrected .

Ashingtonclaret46
23-11-2015, 02:29 PM
It is all down to the interpretation of the referee and we will all see things differently, however, this is what it says in the Interpretation of the Laws of the Game (from FIFA)
LAW 12 FOULS AND MISCONDUCT
Holding an opponent
Holding an opponent includes the act of preventing him from moving past or
around using the hands, the arms or the body.
Referees are reminded to make an early intervention and to deal firmly with
holding offences especially inside the penalty area at corner kicks and free
kicks.
To deal with these situations:

the referee must warn any player holding an opponent before the ball is in
play

caution the player if the holding continues before the ball is in play

award a direct free kick or penalty kick and caution the player if it happens
once the ball is in play
If a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty area and continues
holding him inside the penalty area, the referee must award a penalty kick.
Disciplinary s

the_quoon
23-11-2015, 02:48 PM
its right there in law 12.

cheers.

beddie
23-11-2015, 03:10 PM
Going back to the original post I thought both Greer & Dunk had good games. I know we weren't over impressed at the time with Duffy, now at Rovers when on loan, however, he appears to be putting in some good performances of late.

claretspice
23-11-2015, 03:10 PM
It is there in law 12, but by the same token clearly Keane should have been booked for holding down the defender when he was penalised from our corner in the second half, because that constituted holding an opponent by preventing him moving using the hands and arms. In fact if those rules were applied strictly we'd see every defender and most centre forwards booked within the first 20 minutes of every game, which might be an effective way of stamping it out I suppose but its an experiment that's not been tried yet.

the_quoon
23-11-2015, 04:15 PM
yep and had keane been booked i'd have had no complaints, thats the point.

its very much like the whole diving thing. it needs eradicating and the only way to do it is to clamp down.

there's no need whatosever to hold an opponent, put your arms round them or pull their shirt, anywhere on the pitch.

its a cynical, 'professional' foul every time.

start punishing it properly and it would stop pretty much immediately.

claretspice
23-11-2015, 04:23 PM
Fair enough Quoon, think its a slightly extreme position to take but see the point.