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walter10
27-12-2015, 05:23 PM
Serrious flooding is becoming a regular event.

Can this be put down to global warming?

LiverDamage
27-12-2015, 05:34 PM
No if your'e a realist,yes if your'e a government wanting to create a new tax.

mellowmiller
27-12-2015, 05:35 PM
Well something has certainly changed because extreme weather events are becoming more common across the globe.
It makes you wonder if the measures agreed by mealy mouthed politicians at the recent Global Warming conference are too little too late.

jolly_roger
27-12-2015, 05:40 PM
Most of those delegates wanted one thing and one thing alone................a payout.

LincsMiller
27-12-2015, 06:41 PM
The Romans were not so clever after all, building towns on the banks of rivers. And, what caused Noah's problems all those years ago?????

jolly_roger
27-12-2015, 07:00 PM
Woodworm?

sawmiller
27-12-2015, 07:48 PM
Not quite so amusing if you were in York today though. Have spent the day helping my stepson and his family and a couple of neighbours evacuate their homes and move into temporary accommodation - well done to the Uni of York for helping us out, along with Swaledale Mountain Rescue. The supposed 100 year flood events are more like once or twice a decade now. It is quite frightening to see the extent of what is happening here - water still rising even now!! Folk say Ireland (where I've been for months now) is wet, well, think again...... And they want to haul more fossil fuel out of the ground? All the world's main scientific community now agree that Climate Change accelerated by human activity is now happening - folk here in York would not disagree. Never seen anything like it - this lovely historic city is currently in a state of understandable anxiety

CAMiller
27-12-2015, 08:07 PM
Sorry to hear about that saw, with respect to both your family and the city. There is no doubt that we are seeing weather extremes not experienced within our life times.

frogmiller
27-12-2015, 08:23 PM
It wasn't so long ago that Keswickmiller was in the same difficulties as Saws family. It really does make me angry that there isn't more that can be done.
I should be happy that for the most of December I've been wearing a tee shirt in the afternoons but it concerns me.

What can we do? How can we solve this problem? We can't do anything other than rely on politicians that have to be advised to signagreements that are ignored by most.

Adventus2012
27-12-2015, 08:24 PM
Global warming is definitely happening for real,

The big question is.. Is it a natural global cycle.... or man made??

the_idiotb_stardson
27-12-2015, 08:46 PM
Sorry to hear about sawmillers difficulties.

I have to disagree on the idea that global warming is man-made.

We only tend to look at trends in weather going back 100 or so years. Any natural historian will tell you we should look much further back, millions of years etc. These weather conditions that we think are extreme are nothing unusual if we look back to the beginning of time.

The people who are suffering today need help and the government should provide resources. But banging on about global warming being man-made is not the answer. It will result in breeding a generation of hippy con-artists and crooked lefties looking to make a few easy quid.

jolly_roger
27-12-2015, 09:00 PM
Global warming is definitely happening for real,

The big question is.. Is it a natural global cycle.... or man made??

Both

mikemiller
27-12-2015, 10:45 PM
Yes, It is a combination of both ...but you've got a choice ...listen to what the USA & UK governments and the big oil companies are telling you about the future of our planet, or listen to the independent scientists, for example from the UK's own academic community, .who won't make any money out it by covering up the facts about the reality of it all.
Just because the Tory government is trying to make money out of "global warming" doesn't mean that it isn't actually happening...and they would try to make money out of any disaster, like the Great Plague, if it happened again

My own view is that the floods in Cumbria would not have happened if the planet was not significantly warming up in the long term ...we can. as human beings, do something to offset global problems - for example - that's how smallpox was wiped out . We should be supporting measures against global warming, but not the taxes on the poor that the Tory government is attempting to attach to that.. . let the rich

jolly_roger
27-12-2015, 11:03 PM
Problem is mikemiller is that there is no such thing as an independent scientist.

All are tied to a university or private/public company and actually NEED there to be a problem or their research becomes superfluous so they "talk up" the situation.

In footballing terms a bit like the kick racism out of football organisation, they exaggerate the problem to get funding and should they be 100% successful (impossible) they would be out of a job.

Global Warming is an issue but sadly it's used as a vehicle for scientific charlatans to raise profiles and cash.

LincsMiller
28-12-2015, 10:56 AM
I wasnt poking fun at what has happened SawMiller, just a pointer to the fact that we only have scientific records going back to relatively recent lifetime of our planet. Im sure severe flooding and storms and even an Ice age were not caused by mankind in by-gone days. On the other hand everything possible has to be done just in case the scientists who are pro global warming are correct.

Adventus2012
28-12-2015, 11:09 AM
Believe it or not, very little research has ever been funded to search for natural mechanisms of global warming…it has simply been assumed that global warming is man made. This assumption is rather easy for scientists since we do not have enough accurate global data for a long enough period of time to see whether there are natural warming mechanisms at work.

jolly_roger
28-12-2015, 11:15 AM
True LincsMiller, and there's way too much manipulation of dubious science to prove a weak point.

For example the BBC regularly report that fracking caused an earthquake in Blackpool. Yes there was a minor shake that hardly anybody noticed, yes there was exploratory fracking in the region and all reports said fracking was the PROBABLE cause but not the definite cause. There have been minor land shakes in Lancashire for centuries way before fracking was thought of. However that PROBABLY has now been repeated as DEFINITELY by so many anti-fracking organisations that it's become "fact" and the BBC repeat that error to compound the issue.

It's bad conclusions based on bad science and sadly 90%+ of the scientific reporting on global warming is just the same.

Adventus2012
28-12-2015, 11:22 AM
True LincsMiller, and there's way too much manipulation of dubious science to prove a weak point.

For example the BBC regularly report that fracking caused an earthquake in Blackpool. Yes there was a minor shake that hardly anybody noticed, yes there was exploratory fracking in the region and all reports said fracking was the PROBABLE cause but not the definite cause. There have been minor land shakes in Lancashire for centuries way before fracking was thought of. However that PROBABLY has now been repeated as DEFINITELY by so many anti-fracking organisations that it's become "fact" and the BBC repeat that error to compound the issue.

It's bad conclusions based on bad science and sadly 90%+ of the scientific reporting on global warming is just the same.

A good point made well. I recon there were bigger land shakes through mining and the collapsing of old mine workings than any caused by fracking.

leedsmiller
28-12-2015, 11:46 AM
I've yet to hear anybody try to put today's events into context in terms of Earth's geological life cycle. Britain, for example, has been covered in tropical rain forests and buried beneath ice sheets three miles thick. These events have been ascribed to changes in the Earth's orbit around the sun or a tilt in its rotational axis. The problem today is that we are trying to find explanations for relatively very, very minor, very short term climate changes when they are most likely to be part of changes that are evolving over thousands, probably millions of years. It's like taking our last two results and putting us top of the Championship!

the_idiotb_stardson
28-12-2015, 11:50 AM
I did. Read my post.

leedsmiller
28-12-2015, 01:27 PM
Not talking about MM, talking about those who advise and purport to be experts.

walter10
28-12-2015, 02:59 PM
IBS - did God create the Earth millions of years before he placed Adam and Eve on it in the garden of Eden? I thought he did it in a 6 day stint then had the 7th off (although I know nothing about it and will check on wiki).

the_idiotb_stardson
28-12-2015, 03:03 PM
(although I know nothing about it and will check on wiki).

Modus Operandi

walter10
28-12-2015, 03:58 PM
(although I know nothing about it and will check on wiki).

Modus Operandi[/quote]

I'm more interested in your explanation. Or is it at times like this that the creationist theory doesnt stack up.

the_idiotb_stardson
28-12-2015, 04:01 PM
Would love to hear yours as well.

Adventus2012
28-12-2015, 05:25 PM
Maybe this article will give food for thought? - view external link (http://youngearth.com/surtsey-island-on-claims-of-required-geologic-ages)

sawmiller
28-12-2015, 07:13 PM
Well, here in York the waters are slowly beginning to fall - though barriers to remain until into next week due to the next heavy fall due in the upper catchments on Wednesday. As for my stepson and his family, we now have an offer to stay with friends of theirs so another move out of the Uni beckons. His workplace is also under water at present. Impressed with how people have pulled together here - so many acts of kindness and help. We will go back to the house tomorrow (via a neighbours boat) to collect a few more bits and bobs they need. This will need a whole catchment approach - defences alone will never be enough - we need to slow the flow - time to stop paying for unproductive sheep grazing on marginal upland and plant more woods and reconfigure drains to slow, not speed up, the progression of water off the hills. The defences here in York just mean more grief downstream for smaller communities.

walter10
28-12-2015, 09:07 PM
Sawmiller - truly awful. We suffered when we had the floods in Rotherham in 2007 so kind of know what you're going through.

mygiddypant
28-12-2015, 09:13 PM
I believe man-made global warming is a fact, but the current weather trends are caused by El Nino - a periodic heating of the Pacific.
We are not the only country suffering extreme weather.

Brin
28-12-2015, 09:22 PM
Well, here in York the waters are slowly beginning to fall - though barriers to remain until into next week due to the next heavy fall due in the upper catchments on Wednesday. As for my stepson and his family, we now have an offer to stay with friends of theirs so another move out of the Uni beckons. His workplace is also under water at present. Impressed with how people have pulled together here - so many acts of kindness and help. We will go back to the house tomorrow (via a neighbours boat) to collect a few more bits and bobs they need. This will need a whole catchment approach - defences alone will never be enough - we need to slow the flow - time to stop paying for unproductive sheep grazing on marginal upland and plant more woods and reconfigure drains to slow, not speed up, the progression of water off the hills. The defences here in York just mean more grief downstream for smaller communities.



Sawmiller it is now beco

Brin
28-12-2015, 09:28 PM
Sorry to hear about sawmillers difficulties.

I have to disagree on the idea that global warming is man-made.

We only tend to look at trends in weather going back 100 or so years. Any natural historian will tell you we should look much further back, millions of years etc. These weather conditions that we think are extreme are nothing unusual if we look back to the beginning of time.

The people who are suffering today need help and the government should provide resources. But banging on about global warming being man-made is not the answer. It will result in breeding a generation of hippy con-artists and crooked lefties looking to make a few easy quid.

They'll be telling us next that man 'really' landed on the moon when we know that was an absolute impossibility back in 69….doubt they could make that happen today either….

sawmiller
28-12-2015, 10:04 PM
Sawmiller - truly awful. We suffered when we had the floods in Rotherham in 2007 so kind of know what you're going through.

thanks Walter - we are getting good help and there are folk in worse situations than us

sawmiller
28-12-2015, 10:08 PM
[quote="Brin"]Well, here in York the waters are slowly beginning to fall - though barriers to remain until into next week due to the next heavy fall due in the upper catchments on Wednesday. As for my stepson and his family, we now have an offer to stay with friends of theirs so another move out of the Uni beckons. His workplace is also under water at present. Impressed with how people have pulled together here - so many acts of kindness and help. We will go back to the house tomorrow (via a neighbours boat) to collect a few more bits and bobs they need. This will need a whole catchment approach - defences alone will never be enough - we need to slow the flow - time to stop paying for unproductive sheep grazing on marginal upland and plant more woods and reconfigure drains to slow, not speed up, the progression of water off the hills. The defences here in York just mean more grief downstream for smaller communities.

walter10
29-12-2015, 05:55 AM
Would love to hear yours as well.

Re whether global warming is man made - I dont have any strong opinion one way or the other.

I have no way of doing my own private independent research. All I can do is google and read existing opinion to form a view, which, as I understand it, is against mm rules.

I am pleased for you (and Jolly) that you are so certain it is not man made. I assume you have done your own original research to come by your informed conclusion.

I'm just wondering how you were able to do the field work to go back to the begining of time, calculate weather patterns from back then (and other more recent periods) to compare to today? It would be great if you could show your research to help me form an opinion.

walter10
29-12-2015, 06:10 AM
IBS- Im from a religious family. I would like to think creation is true. Its during dicussions like these that I find it hard to justify.

Just say that God did created to Earth in 6 days. Humans would have been on the Earth from day 6. On this thread we are talking servere weather patterns going back millions of years which, in some periods, could not sustain human life (and I dont see how we could have competed with dinosaurs btw).

I get the bit that during floods Noah saved all life form in his boat. But there is no explanation for how life sustained the periods of extreme heat and ice?

Adventus2012
29-12-2015, 12:56 PM
Check out this link regarding creation

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - view external link (http://youngearth.com/does-earth-look-young-or-old)

Redshank
29-12-2015, 02:27 PM
Check out this link regarding creation

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

OK, so a link to a religious fundamentalist site has what relevance exactly?

Adventus2012
29-12-2015, 04:48 PM
Just trying to give some clarity to a question raised in this thread actually! It gives a view on creation .... with reference to post 35 if you care to read it.
Whether it is fundamentalist or not I don't purport to know or care to be honest.

UTM :)

Tonight - Fulham 1 - Millers 3

come on your reds!!!

jolly_roger
29-12-2015, 05:07 PM
[quote="Brin"]Well, here in York the waters are slowly beginning to fall - though barriers to remain until into next week due to the next heavy fall due in the upper catchments on Wednesday. As for my stepson and his family, we now have an offer to stay with friends of theirs so another move out of the Uni beckons. His workplace is also under water at present. Impressed with how people have pulled together here - so many acts of kindness and help. We will go back to the house tomorrow (via a neighbours boat) to collect a few more bits and bobs they need. This will need a whole catchment approach - defences alone will never be enough - we need to slow the flow - time to stop paying for unproductive sheep grazing on marginal upland and plant more woods and reconfigure drains to slow, not speed up, the progression of water off the hills. The defences here in York just mean more grief downstream for smaller communities.

millertop
30-12-2015, 09:14 AM
Gone mad in some places, terrible at anytime but this time of year must be a nightmare

Flooding,Homeless, power cuts, bridges collapsing, roads shut off, f**king looters >:(
Not just England, N Ireland and Scotland have been hit bad.