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kempo
16-03-2016, 09:40 AM
I was reading in the Times on Sunday about how bad the UK was in teaching maths.

I was overjoyed to see the ST using the term maths as opposed to math.

I assume math has come from the USA but I don't understand how it has become the normal here.

I know John2 was discussing the same thing with his 'girlfriend' when he went for his walk down City Road on Saturday night but does anyone know the answer..how and why did maths become math.

Well done to the Times for staying with maths.

Deepmidwinter
16-03-2016, 09:47 AM
Copied the following from "Grammarist"

Neither abbreviation is correct or incorrect. You may hear arguments for one being superior to the other, and there are logical cases for both sides. One could argue maths is better because mathematics ends in s, and one could argue math is better because mathematics is just a mass noun that happens to end in s. In any case, English usage is rarely guided by logic, and these usage idiosyncrasies are often arbitrary. If you were raised in a part of the world where people say maths, then maths is correct for you, and the same is of course true of math.

kempo
16-03-2016, 09:50 AM
That's helpful deep but doesn't explain why we have changed.

In our part of the world we grew up with maths but media outlets except The Times use math.

jolly_roger
16-03-2016, 09:51 AM
Because Americans are linguistically lazy.

For example color, humor, and favor

Deepmidwinter
16-03-2016, 09:52 AM
Copied from Film Fun

In countries outside of the United States, Americanization or Americanisation is the influence American culture has on the culture of other countries, such as their popular culture, media, cuisine, technology, business practices, or political techniques.

kempo
16-03-2016, 09:56 AM
Yes Mrs K said the same, there is no deep and academic reason, it's simply an Americanisation for no particular reason.

It's a shame..well done to The Times, a cracking paper although I'm not keen on the proprietor..

tony260674
16-03-2016, 10:16 AM
Nothing to do with laziness. In the UK we call Physical Education P.E. In the US they call it Phys ED.

Brin
16-03-2016, 10:19 AM
Because Americans are linguistically lazy.

For example color, humor, and favor

But they sometimes spell the word as it is pronounced.... take 'center' as an example ...
Spelt just how it sounds where as we use
'Centre' just like the French do..... Have we got that one wrong?

Deepmidwinter
16-03-2016, 10:24 AM
Nothing to do with laziness. In the UK we call Physical Education P.E. In the US they call it Phys ED.

True. Also:

Lift - elevator
Boot- trunk
Tap - faucet
Torch - flashlight

jolly_roger
16-03-2016, 11:03 AM
Because Americans are linguistically lazy.

For example color, humor, and favor

But they sometimes spell the word as it is pronounced.... take 'center' as an example ...
Spelt just how it sounds where as we use
'Centre' just like the French do..... Have we got that one wrong? [/quote]

Equally you could have a classic car or an old banger, you could knock down Buckingham Palace and build a block of flats. Some are functionally better but lack style. Modern English is an evolved language full of variation and charm unlike the modern American type language which lacks any real style apart from it's easier to teach to kids.

Mc Donalds is a flag bearer for this attitude to language, as demonstrated by Drive Thru.

michaeldc
16-03-2016, 11:42 AM
Yeah I'm not sure I consider 'through' to be the superior spelling for that particular word to be honest.

Deepmidwinter
16-03-2016, 11:44 AM
Yes, as in I through a stone threw the window of the dive thru.

gm_gm
16-03-2016, 12:42 PM
Because Americans are linguistically lazy.

For example color, humor, and favor

In Sheffield theyre lazier then

Kula, Huma and fava

jolly_roger
16-03-2016, 12:58 PM
Don't mention dee dah. XD

Redshank
16-03-2016, 01:28 PM
Aluminum?.....NO.....it's Alu-ferkin-minium

...and don't get me started on fanny bags.

Brin
16-03-2016, 02:56 PM
Aluminum?.....NO.....it's Alu-ferkin-minium

...and don't get me started on fanny bags.

Fanny packs actually ..., ;D

sota
16-03-2016, 08:57 PM
Drives me nuts when they call St Patrick's Day, St Pattie's Day instead of St Paddy's...must be 'cos they pronounce Patty as Paddy, so think it's Patty...or is it Paddy lol..

CAMiller
16-03-2016, 09:01 PM
Drives me nuts when they call St Patrick's Day, St Pattie's Day instead of St Paddy's...must be 'cos they pronounce Patty as Paddy, so think it's Patty...or is it Paddy lol..

Like Craig becoming Creg and Mary becoming Merry (without touching a drop XD).

millavanilla
18-03-2016, 04:44 AM

millavanilla
18-03-2016, 04:45 AM

millavanilla
18-03-2016, 04:45 AM
Seems like americanisation is taking over what with halloween etc...another thing amuses me..when i go to denmark, and you talk to them in english, they speak back in an american twang..when i ask why are they speaking american, they say that theyre not, theyre speaking english...so it turns out that at school, theyre taught english, with an american accent..they cant speak kings english or any english...

CAMiller
18-03-2016, 06:08 AM
King's English, that's a funny one milla XD Have you listened to folk around South Yorkshire? People speak English in the manner/accent they are taught it and hear it spoken around them. That's how Molby became a scouser.and why the Danes you met speak with an American accent. Over time they also tend to modify their accent to fit their surroundings. I still have a detectable Yorkshire accent due to spending my first 19 years there but to you I'd probably sound like a Southerner with a hint of US as I spent the next 19 years in Northants and the last 17 in the States. Just 2 more to go and then time to move on again XD

michaeldc
18-03-2016, 08:22 AM
Oh no, run for the hills, another culture that does things slightly different to us! It must be bad/taking over/weird etc etc...

The reason why so many Europeans speak English so well and with an American twang is because the USA is the biggest exporter of the English language - if you grew up hearing English almost exclusively via US films/TV/music/advertising do you think you might also have an American twang in your accent?

kempo
18-03-2016, 08:30 AM
Oh no, run for the hills, another culture that does things slightly different to us! It must be bad/taking over/weird etc etc...

The reason why so many Europeans speak English so well and with an American twang is because the USA is the biggest exporter of the English language - if you grew up hearing English almost exclusively via US films/TV/music/advertising do you think you might also have an American twang in your accent?

That doesn't explain why for instance English presenters, news readers and so on who were brought up in the UK have started to use math and this has developed over a short period of time.

It's so widespread that it was a really pleasant surprise to see the Sunday Times using maths which has moved that paper even higher in my esteem if that is possible.

michaeldc
18-03-2016, 08:34 AM
Why does it matter?

Deepmidwinter
18-03-2016, 09:10 AM
Why does it matter?

Or for that matter what IS matter?

kempo
18-03-2016, 09:26 AM
Why does it matter?

In the great scheme of the universe dropping an s doesn't matter that much but development, change and the dynamic nature of a language is interesting to some including myself and I am unsure why this change has appeared in such a widespread way and so suddenly.

It wouldn't matter that much if we changed the to barnaclebill instead of maths but would be interesting to know why.

Deepmidwinter
18-03-2016, 09:31 AM
Why does it matter?

In the great scheme of the universe dropping an s doesn't matter that much but development, change and the dynamic nature of a language is interesting to some including myself and I am unsure why this change has appeared in such a widespread way and so suddenly.

It wouldn't matter that much if we changed the to barnaclebill instead of maths but would be interesting to know why.[/quote]

Barnacle Bill. Rather ironic Kempo that you mention an American drinking song- sounds as though you are being Americanised!

kempo
18-03-2016, 09:45 AM
Subconscious decision by my brain to pick that I would guess

michaeldc
18-03-2016, 10:35 AM
Your posts suggest you dislike the American spelling and are worried about the increasing use of Americanisms. You mention that 'Math' is widespread (I personally have never seen or noticed this spelling in the UK) and say that you are 'overjoyed' at the use of the English spelling in an English newspaper. I'm sure you prefer gaol to jail too...

Language is constantly evolving, the point is mainly to understand what is intended though. Read > Understand > Move on - surely posting such trivialities is beneath the good doctor and a waste of his precious time?

Edited in honour of redhouse.

redhouse
18-03-2016, 11:05 AM
Do Americans use you're instead of your ;D :D

michaeldc
18-03-2016, 11:08 AM
I don't know what your talking about... ;)

Rileyev2
18-03-2016, 12:28 PM
All started with Marathon bars becoming Snickers!!!

CAMiller
18-03-2016, 03:49 PM
At least Raider became Twix in return :-)

On the grander scale of things think yourselves lucky. All you did was lose an s at the end of maths. Over here we have had to endure an influx of 'Brit stars' including Gordon Ramsey, Jamie Oliver, Piers Morgan, Simon Cowell...et al. They even tried to sneak Ant and Dec over here but they were quickly repelled XD

jolly_roger
18-03-2016, 04:07 PM
Yes, the dump it site is a long way from my house too.

kempo
18-03-2016, 05:44 PM
Your posts suggest you dislike the American spelling and are worried about the increasing use of Americanisms. You mention that 'Math' is widespread (I personally have never seen or noticed this spelling in the UK) and say that you are 'overjoyed' at the use of the English spelling in an English newspaper. I'm sure you prefer gaol to jail too...

Language is constantly evolving, the point is mainly to understand what is intended though. Read > Understand > Move on - surely posting such trivialities is beneath the good doctor and a waste of his precious time?

Edited in honour of redhouse.

Never noticed the spelling!....Says a lot about your reading material.

Why do you have to be so unpleasant?

If you are not interested then why do you post on the thread?

Ellis_D
18-03-2016, 11:23 PM
Anyone who says "math" rather than "maths" is an absolute bellend and should be educated thus.

Deepmidwinter
19-03-2016, 09:16 AM
Don't want to subtract from the thread or create divisions but all this talk of mathematics doesn't add up.

kempo
19-03-2016, 10:11 AM
We have people like michaeldc being so negative and trying to take away the interest in the thread and he does this multiple times every time I log on.