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Zilzal
21-06-2016, 05:58 PM
Above all, as far as I'm concerned, a very long (needs must) and comprehensive post explaining the whys and wherefors of Thursday's vote on the EU.

We had one in the early hours of Saturday morning - or at least I thought we did, until I pressed send and the site failed this simple task.

My post was an economic, socio-political and historical analysis of Britain and its dealings with America, Europe and the rest of the world covering the period 1914 to the present day. Its ultimate summing up was as follows: if you are working class or lower middle class, have children or grandchildren, are sickened by the current Tory government and the elite capitalists who run this country and force one austerity measure after another on the lower orders (I very much include myself in the lower order bracket) and have had more than enough of the lies and false promises given to us from on high, then it would be beneficial to vote LEAVE.

I wrote this very long post not for self glory but to try to help people to make the right decision. Things will be tough for most if we Leave the EU but only in the short term. Long term, everyone in this country will see and experience a substantial boost to their lives. The money people, the owners of the majority of Britain's wealth and power don't want us to leave. Nor do the bureaucrats, mandarins and politicians who benefit from the non-elected European parliament. The other 27 countries of the EU sees us as an easy touch and their benefactors.

It's the right time to inform Europe and the world that we've finally had enough of gross exploitation and are going to LEAVE. If you don't take this opportunity now you will be betraying your offspring and their offspring in turn.

Vote on the 23rd and vote LEAVE>

NeztheMiller
21-06-2016, 06:16 PM
I didn't expect a political thread Zil when I read the title.
Personally I don't need any info regarding the Euro vote because I've had leaflets through my letterbox, more than once, and I think that I've got as many facts and figures that I need.

I will definitely be voting to LEAVE and the sooner the better. Let's get our country back to what it used to be like.

Adventus2012
21-06-2016, 06:25 PM
Well said Zilzal, & Nez for me the principle at issue in the referendum is whether Britain should be controlled by the votes of its own people or whether that power should be diluted by Brussels, has real-life consequences for the way we build our society in the future.

Greece, Italy, Spain, and Portugal have all had their fiscal affairs meddled with against the wishes of their elected governments, but you could argue at a stretch that requiring governments to balance their books is a politically neutral policy: Countries can decide for themselves how they want to do that. But what isn't neutral are the competition rules that forbid countries from supporting their domestic industries. If you think the British government should support British steel works or that the railways should be nationalised again, you're in for a shock: EU law literally bans countries from nationalising certain industries.

So yes, leaving the EU might hurt economically in the short term. But in the long term, something more important is at stake: whether our democracy should be real. The UK recently devolved power to Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, and it continues to devolve power to its larger cities and regions. There is broad agreement that this has been a good thing. This is the best argument for Brexit: We should extend that devolution of power to our entire nation, too.

On the 23rd Vote leave.... Oh and take a pen!! don't ever cast a vote with a pencil!!

mygiddypant
21-06-2016, 06:58 PM
You guys are due to be disappointed. The REMAINs have it! B)

CAMiller
21-06-2016, 07:01 PM
On the 23rd Vote leave.... Oh and take a pen!! don't ever cast a vote with a pencil!!

Good advice Knocker, especially as many on here are of an age where they will be lacking lead in their pencil...

.... and don't forget that once you have voted Leave you will be free to become the 51st State of the US ;D

millertop
21-06-2016, 07:04 PM
BBC the great debate is on now

Ericsladkilnhurst
21-06-2016, 08:12 PM
Out, Out, Out, to stop in the E.U. will see the English the minority in the U/K , with the N.H.S.in the melting pot,along with Doctors surgeries, & Social housing in more dire straits than it is in now. :mad:

CAMiller
21-06-2016, 09:48 PM
What's missing? A list of realistic prospects for RUFC to sign from the self proclaimed chief scout whose name escapes me for the moment but I think it had a couple of zeds in there (or zees if you are on my side of the Atlantic).

millavanilla
21-06-2016, 10:08 PM
Vote leave..if not, although most of us wont see it, the millers will be fielding a team of turks, kosovans and romas....no? just go back to the sixties...not many black players playing then...look at it now....it will be same with the eastopians..theyll be all over the place..and you definately wont be able to hang your jeans out...

kempo
22-06-2016, 08:34 AM
One of the few things we disagree on zilzal.

I am voting to support the young people and voting remain although either result will make little difference to me personally.

The world as changed, mainly for the better and many out voters seem to have the naive view that we can get back to 'how it used to be'

The risks of out are too great and we should not dismiss the views re the economy.

The out campaign has this horrible underlying racism which I don't like.

Isolation is never a good thing and doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Trade agreements are not within my expertise but the out campaigner are wrong..It is absolutely certain that a trade agreement without free movement is not possible..evidence..Present trade agreements with for example Norway and others...Clear statements from EU leaders and the obvious that if we got a good agreement then it would precipitate an exodus and likely collapse of the EU.

I have no problem with society evolving with different skin colours and countries of birth..I detest flag waving and all the prejudice and nonsense that goes with it.

I look around and things look not too bad to me and see no reason to risk leaving.

Try and change from within is needed but isolating ourselves is nothing short of foolish.

Vote tomorrow and vote REMAIN.

gm_gm
22-06-2016, 09:49 AM
I was strongly in favor of remain for months until I read the arguments, for some reasons opinion were suddenly total facts on the remain side. Speculation turned into expert opinion, many of the same pundits were wheeled out to suggest Armageddon if we leave, the same ones who had previously been discredited for suggesting the very same calamity if we didnt join the euro

I have to agree on one of Zils points, the EU is very much a closed shop for big business who dont want the little guy crashing their world. All the doom mongering is to scare the little guy into believing the world will end, and that the big companys of Europe will take care of them.

The economy will do what its done throughout trading history and evolve, a recession is only a fall in growth for 2 quarters or more, this could happen if someone sets a bomb off in the American embassy in Russia

millertop
22-06-2016, 10:30 AM
I've been reading up on both sides since the start and saw some good points on both sides which made it hard to decide.

I don't normally watch the debates but watched last nights (gods knows why) started off alright but didn't take long for the pettiness to start and I thought the remain side were very ignorant tbh.

I will never watch a debate again.

mygiddypant
22-06-2016, 10:56 AM
Vote leave..if not, although most of us wont see it, the millers will be fielding a team of turks, kosovans and romas....no? just go back to the sixties...not many black players playing then...look at it now....it will be same with the eastopians..theyll be all over the place..and you definately wont be able to hang your jeans out...

OMG! Let's go back to a time when Britain was Great and only recruit players who work down the pits or in the steel works. Er...

Zilzal
22-06-2016, 06:05 PM
KEMPO, we can't agree on everything as you rightly say. I'm 98% convinced the best thing to do is to vote LEAVE.

Like you I won't get anything out of it but my vote is for the Younger Generation (fine song by the Lovin' Spoonful).


I strongly suspect that the country as a whole is too cautious and conservative to risk change and therefore will put their marker down for Remain. John 2, our very own Southern Man (Neil Young) is nailed on to vote Remain. Pity we can't get a bet on.

PeteWaller
22-06-2016, 06:17 PM
Vote LEAVE