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thedonz
22-01-2017, 07:04 PM
If you haven't read Dyche's comments in the Lancashire Evening Telegraph do so.

He explains the reason he believes offside wasn't given.

Basically he blames it on linesmen being unable to put their flag up until the attacking player touches the ball. In the past this was not the case.

Dyche's view was that once the ref gave the penalty it made it harder for the linesman to be strong and raise his flag.

What do you think?

Primitive
22-01-2017, 07:08 PM
Sounds reasonable to me.

Pretty sure they won't dwell on it and it'll be on to the next game.

thedonz
22-01-2017, 07:14 PM
I thought it sounded reasonable and agree we won't dwell on it.

Just seen a recording of the incident and when it happened I thought the ref did look in the direction if the linesman before pointing to the spot.

It's all split second stuff but I think the linesman should have put up his flag as soon as contact was made with the ball, regardless of whether that contact came from Mee.

Supersub6
22-01-2017, 07:46 PM
I thought it sounded reasonable and agree we won't dwell on it.

Just seen a recording of the incident and when it happened I thought the ref did look in the direction if the linesman before pointing to the spot.

It's all split second stuff but I think the linesman should have put up his flag as soon as contact was made with the ball, regardless of whether that contact came from Mee.

The ref looked in the direction of the AR because it was the AR that signalled for the penalty, the referee did not have a clear view of the incident. More than likely the AR communicated the decision through the comms, unfortunately, he had missed the offside.

army88
22-01-2017, 07:55 PM
The ref looked in the direction of the AR because it was the AR that signalled for the penalty, the referee did not have a clear view of the incident. More than likely the AR communicated the decision through the comms, unfortunately, he had missed the offside.

It's shocking because even in the national papers the photograph shows the linesman is directly in line with the offside , can't miss it , foul or no foul you can't miss him a yard offside.

I could accept it if it was closer and contentious but it just isn't.

Norder
22-01-2017, 08:01 PM
.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/football/2017/01/22/vlcsnap-2017-01-22-16h12m18s84-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqtR1WRZ4lb6BOb1-FBRpn-lFGGjcI28awSNtOPAVs6pc.png


;D

Supersub6
22-01-2017, 08:01 PM
army88 --too true -- how do you think that the lads feel --- again?

thedonz
22-01-2017, 08:15 PM
How do linesmen indicate a penalty these days. I know they used to put their arm across their chest. Did this one do that?

If so, this linesman wants standing down for incompetency.

The Bedlington Terrier
22-01-2017, 09:02 PM
Maybe it's because he is a chicken livered nincompoop?

Supersub6
22-01-2017, 09:11 PM
Here are some of the FA directives re AR and Penalty kicks. (This would be relevant in this case because the ref was a good 25 yards away and looking through a crowd of players).

How should the assistant referee signal with their flag should they be leading the decision making process?
Before signalling for an offence, the assistant referee must determine that the offence was out of the view of the referee or the referee’s view was obstructed – the flag signal should ‘add value’ to the decision making process and outcome.
Where the assistant referee needs to make a signal with their flag to indicate that an offence has taken place, the flag signal should be as follows:
• raise the flag with the same hand that will also be used for the remainder of the signal - this gives the referee a clear indication as to who was fouled
• agitate/wave the flag back and forth (avoiding any excessive or aggressive movement)
• use the electronic beep signal, and communication system if available
Assistant Referee:
Raise and agitate flag, clear direction
Referee:
Whistle (penalising offence)

What does clear physical movement mean and how is this done?
Clear physical movement is a visible movement with purpose in a particular direction. For example if the assistant referee is leading the decision making process and the outcome is a penalty kick, following the flag signal of the assistant referee and the referee blowing their whistle to stop play and penalise the offence, the assistant referee will clearly move along the touchline with purpose towards the goal line.
The ‘movement style’ of the assistant referee should allow him/her to keep a view of the field of play, a controlled side-stepping movement or mid-pace jog whilst looking in field should be used. Sprinting should not be used for this movement.

thedonz
22-01-2017, 10:15 PM
Spot on supersub. His flag was held aloft.

He did miss the offside!!!!!!

Another_Yorkshire_Claret
22-01-2017, 10:33 PM
Doesn't bloody well matter how he waived the flag in a silly manner or otherwise.

We don't have any points to show for it, no OCD info about how a flag was waived/held will help that!

Get on with Leicester a week on Tuesday!!!

AYC

oldcolner
22-01-2017, 10:40 PM
I suspect the pass was made from,the other side of the pitch and the linesman would have difficulty focusing on the long distance through a few players and spotting the exact position of Koscielny as the line moved up and back and up again and he tracked them a millisecond later.
I think Sean has a good points and the time must surely come where we have video replays to prove controversial decisions or improve them

thedonz
22-01-2017, 11:15 PM
I thought Sean had a good point until ss pointed out it was the linesman gave the penalty. Watched it closely on MOTD and his flag was clearly raised. It could only have been for the penalty.

I agree with you wholeheartedly oc about video replays settling such incidents. Scratching my head why so many are against them when you consider all the time wasting involved with substitutions and other things.

I cannot make excuses for this linesman , the fact that the ball came in from the other side of the field and there was a lot of movement in the box should not have made any difference to a linesman deemed qualified to officiate at this level. He cost us badly today.

The Bedlington Terrier
23-01-2017, 03:36 AM
He was smack bang in line of the offside and had not the necessary bottle to call it.

There is no other logical explanation.

sinkov
23-01-2017, 08:21 AM
I agree with you wholeheartedly oc about video replays settling such incidents. Scratching my head why so many are against them when you consider all the time wasting involved with substitutions and other things.

One of the arguments against them is that football is a fast flowing game, unlike cricket, rugby or tennis where there are plenty of breaks. This is utter rubbish, the ball is in play for less than 60 minutes in any game, the rest of the time is taken up with free-kicks, corners, goal-kicks, throw-ins, substitutions, which often involve a slow trudge from the opposite side of the pitch, treatment of injuries, tedious lectures from the referee for players guilty of minor offences, and have you ever noticed the pantomime surrounding any free-kick close to the edge of the penalty area, this often drags on for well over a minute.

In the light of all those interruptions to a game, the idea that fans wouldn't tolerate another few seconds delay to get a decision right is just laughable. It will happen, why they don't just get on with it is beyond me.

army88
23-01-2017, 12:24 PM
One of the arguments against them is that football is a fast flowing game, unlike cricket, rugby or tennis where there are plenty of breaks. This is utter rubbish, the ball is in play for less than 60 minutes in any game, the rest of the time is taken up with free-kicks, corners, goal-kicks, throw-ins, substitutions, which often involve a slow trudge from the opposite side of the pitch, treatment of injuries, tedious lectures from the referee for players guilty of minor offences, and have you ever noticed the pantomime surrounding any free-kick close to the edge of the penalty area, this often drags on for well over a minute.

In the light of all those interruptions to a game, the idea that fans wouldn't tolerate another few seconds delay to get a decision right is just laughable. It will happen, why they don't just get on with it is beyond me.

We've debated this on here before Sinkov , and as far as I'm aware there is a trial in the Premier league running now with a 5th official who has the benefit of Sky tv shots etc so he will have seen that they were offside, however I believe he's not able to intervene at this point in proceedings as its still a trial.

You are quite right of course major issues like this should be looked at and IMO it wouldn't take any time at all I mean you me and 5 million others new it was offside instantly with the benefit of TV, as soon as it was delivered I text a mate and said offside it won't stand , the point being the so called 5th official speaks into ref headset says no goal offside 10 seconds max --- not re run after re run like in Rugby just cancel it out.

Above all that the referee IMO as a professional should be answerable , so if they choose not to pursue the 5th official monitor route he should come out after the game and explain why decisions were given or not , I appreciate it won't change them but at least we could understand why.

Just as a last point the referee yesterday wasn't fit enough to get up and down with play, I'm surprised no one mentioned that.

Supersub6
23-01-2017, 12:58 PM
"Just as a last point the referee yesterday wasn't fit enough to get up and down with play, I'm surprised no one mentioned that."

The referee would not be refereeing in the PL if he had not passed the stringent fitness tests whcih they have to go through. He refereed the game very well in general and his positioning was also good.
It would have been the AR who gave the penalty against us because the referee was more central (correctly so) and about 20 yards from the incident because he was looking at possible infringements amongst the melee of players in the box. He could not have had a clear view of the incident, therefore, it had to be the AR who gave him the nod.

And just to clarify for AYC -- someone asked how the AR signals these days -- that is why I clarified that matter since it changed this season.

The Bedlington Terrier
23-01-2017, 01:26 PM
Have a look at this one!

https://www.facebook.com/turfmoor/photos/a.307794372573601.79853.307518822601156/1401667649852929/?type=3

army88
23-01-2017, 05:18 PM
"Just as a last point the referee yesterday wasn't fit enough to get up and down with play, I'm surprised no one mentioned that."

The referee would not be refereeing in the PL if he had not passed the stringent fitness tests whcih they have to go through. He refereed the game very well in general and his positioning was also good.
It would have been the AR who gave the penalty against us because the referee was more central (correctly so) and about 20 yards from the incident because he was looking at possible infringements amongst the melee of players in the box. He could not have had a clear view of the incident, therefore, it had to be the AR who gave him the nod.

And just to clarify for AYC -- someone asked how the AR signals these days -- that is why I clarified that matter since it changed this season.

Looked overweight to me Supersub that's all.

ThameClaret
23-01-2017, 10:03 PM
I was also impressed with SD response when he was asked if he'd spoken to the ref about the decision....
His answer, "what's the point, he can't change his mind" so we move on...
With Wenger, he saw every Burnley infringement but none of Arse-nils...

thedonz
24-01-2017, 07:51 PM
I think you made this point after the match ss after I started this thread. As I posted afterwards I watched MOTD closely and it was indeed the AR who raised his flag . The ref looked over at him before awarding the penalty.

Unfortunately the AR missed the offside!