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Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience? - Aberdeen FC forum

Topic started: Thursday 18 April 2013 10:59 AM
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Arctic_Flunky's avatarArctic_FlunkyUser is Offline Posts: 2,262Liked: 104 times in 67 postsJoined: June 2009Hall of Fame5 year member
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Posted 22 May 2013 15:58
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Good luck LM, might be what you need. Hope you get through it alright.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 22 May 2013 16:09
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Cheers lads! "One flew over... "is one of my favourite films of all time, hoping there's a Chief kicking about there I can piss around with. Put it in the basket, Chief!! Nae letting him near my pillow though!

But alas, i'll keep you updated on how it goes!
phoenixx's avatarphoenixxUser is Offline Posts: 22,159Liked: 382 times in 284 postsJoined: August 2006Hall of Fame8 year member
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Posted 22 May 2013 16:20
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Lagosred' wrote at 18:33 on 20 Apr:
'hilton82' wrote at 18:15 on 20 Apr:
dinna think there is anything as bad coming down fae a speed bomb back in 1990. ****ing hell torture, staring at your bedroom ceiling for two days stomach cramps were mental. only solution for some folk was take mare . mcombie fae torry being that man:D

I used to drink tins n skin up like a machine gun if I was coming down like a burning spitfire, eased the cramps and I used to dose aff eventually fan enough had been imbibed, sleep for two days n lose anither job :/

But it was self inflicted and nothing compared to the nightmare you are haen LM, good luck min.

My old man has jist changed doctors as the boy retired, first thing he does is review the meds and takes him off one he has been on for nearly three years, side effects include diaorea (SP) and stomach cramps but hes old school and winna question doctors.

Question everything.

Correct Lr , we have a lot to be grateful for with modern medicine but equally there is a 'dark' side and certain quarters of scientific medicine seem to be motivated only by profit(isn't everything these days?).

My macrobiotic guru , Georges Ohsawa said he would be insulted to be called a doctor in the modern context , believing that modern drugs only disguise symptoms and in so doing actually inhibit the body's own built-in healing process.

Too many drugs prescribed too easily and many don't work anyway.

Good luck Leon_Mike , your body is trying to help you , eat healthily to help it help you and avoid toxins and poisons. Exercise , drink plenty water for now and engage in stuff that interests you(the Dons) to help take your mind off it.
sheepinthailandUser is Offline Posts: 560Liked: 12 times in 9 postsJoined: January 2008Reserves6 year member
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Posted 24 May 2013 12:47
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Leon_Mike' wrote at 12:31 on 22 May:
Update after a wee while. My usage got too high and tapering off failed so I'm away into a hospital for god knows how long to detox.

Wish me luck lads! I think I might need it!

NSS Scotland got me hooked on prescription meds, with no warnings whatsoever and severely upsetting my life. I personally couldn't do the tapering, which was 37.5mg (from an original 375mg) reduction per day, every month.

If this is something close to cold turkey, then I all can say is it's the only thing that worked for me.

To me, tapering just makes an ACUTE state of Hell both ACUTE and CHRONIC. Just get it over with to claim your life back.

Im no Doctor mind, but might I also suggest several daily doses of the b-complex, magnesium, malic acid and vitamin c by the gram. Good luck.

PS the book "Big Pharma" is a shocking (and sadly really interesting!) eyeopener into the insidious world of the pharmaceutical industry
MistyBlue's avatarMistyBlueUser is Offline Posts: 2,607Liked: 202 times in 170 postsJoined: May 2003Hall of Fame11 year member
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Posted 30 May 2013 11:32
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Hope it's worked out for you LM ..

Give us all an update
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 16 Jun 2013 09:50
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'MistyBlue' wrote at 11:32 on 30 May:
Hope it's worked out for you LM ..

Give us all an update

Still in hospital min, they reckon I'll be able to sleep at home next week but with daily visits to the hospital for the next 3-4 weeks. Almost a month down the line and the withdrawal is as s'hite and mind bending as ever. Every day it throws up something new.

One thing to learn from this folks - don't mess with benzos! If you're prescribed them, be ultra careful!
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 25 Jun 2013 15:57
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Just been transferred over as a day patient after about 5 weeks of hospital. What a journey.

Still another month or two to go of going in every day Mon-Fri 7am - 4pm but I'm over the hill, so to speak. The withdrawal is still crippling though, and my memory has gone to pot - the last 6 months are just a total blur. I don't even remember going into hospital the first time, for instance.

I'm now on some meds called Lyrica and they seem to be working a treat. The side effect I keep getting is Euphoria - it's rather weird just sitting there and then getting a bout of overjoyous Euphoria, especially as it comes out of nothing!

Anyway, onwards and upwards!
StandfreeFM's avatarStandfreeFMUser is Offline Posts: 2,486Liked: 72 times in 59 postsJoined: November 2009Hall of Fame5 year member
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Posted 25 Jun 2013 16:33
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Good to hear you're on the road to recovery sir, sounds as if you've had a bad time of it recently.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 10 Aug 2013 14:11
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Sorry to bump this, but that's me finished lads!

Out of the hospital now, just need to pop back once or twice a week for the forseeable future!

Thanks again for all the support! Was one hell of a journey, could seriously write a half decent book based on the experience and the stories from the place. Some of the stuff that goes on is hilarious in a very, very dark way.
scobiemacd's avatarscobiemacdUser is Offline Posts: 9,343Liked: 701 times in 513 postsJoined: April 2008Hall of Fame6 year member
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Posted 10 Aug 2013 14:30
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
If it helps maybe you should try and write down your experiences.

Anyway, hope it works out for you LM. Sounds like hell what you went through.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 10 Aug 2013 15:06
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'scobiemacd' wrote at 14:30 on 10 Aug:
If it helps maybe you should try and write down your experiences.

Anyway, hope it works out for you LM. Sounds like hell what you went through.

I definitely will min. I'll compose some thoughts and some stuff that happened and throw it on here if anyone is interested.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 09:05
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Still going through this, although to a lesser extent.

I'm about 70% fit now.

Still get pangs where I want Valium no matter what and I have to stop myself. Also the side effects from Lyrica are becoming apparent again - my vision is blurry as we speak, for instance.

Still, I'm slowly getting better. It's estimated it will be around 6 months before I can think to myself that I am "better" which is fair enough. I think the meds quite literally battered my brain.

It's certainly changed my mind about medicine and drugs in general. There's no f'ucking way I'll ever be touching a street drug now, especially this "legal" s'hite that some on here are fond of. I'm also wary of what I get from the doctor these days.

Lesson learned, as they say.

On a side note: The protocol here in Germany was that I was addicted, and they gave me 2 options - try the taper as an "Ambulant" patient, whereby I'd see the doctor every week for checkups and be given a taper plan OR be admitted to hospital where they would monitor me 24hours a day. I picked the first option, and when that failed I had to choose the latter.

In Aberdeen, what would have happened? IF I hadn't been given the option of Hospital treatment as an in patient, and I don't want to sound like I'm overreacting here, but I think I'd be dead now. My heart rate was just through the roof and the visual disturbances would have probably driven me to suicide or something if my heart hadn't killed me first.

Is there the option of Hospital treatment in Aberdeen for addiction? Or is it just simply dismissed/ignored? Would it have been a trip to Cornhill?

Cheers.
User edit 27 Sep 09:09
RicoS321User is Offline Posts: 4,517Liked: 641 times in 438 postsJoined: July 2010Hall of Fame4 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 09:41
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Leon_Mike' wrote at 09:05 on 27 Sep:
In Aberdeen, what would have happened?

Fitiver was cheapest in the short term.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 09:51
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'RicoS321' wrote at 09:41 on 27 Sep:
'Leon_Mike' wrote at 09:05 on 27 Sep:
In Aberdeen, what would have happened?

Fitiver was cheapest in the short term.

I'd agree but what are the cheap options? Apart from doing nothing?

Someone in Aberdeen laughed when they said it was hard to come off this stuff. Seems the attitude over here in Germany is totally different. Doctor sat me down and told me it is probably the hardest thing to beat mentally and if I wanted to speak to someone after telling me this, he'd organise it.

I'd worry that in Aberdeen, I'd have been treated just by a GP and told to just get over it.

Is it quite literally GP or Cornhill in Aberdeen? Are there addiction centres or wards? If not, surely that is a massive oversight?

My ward was filled with junkies and alcoholics who were in tears of joy because they finally had the help they needed. Imagine something like that in Aberdeen, it could potentially change the look of the city centre and the lives of those affected.
User edit 27 Sep 09:53
terenceandphilip's avatarterenceandphilipUser is Offline Posts: 17,081Liked: 231 times in 176 postsJoined: December 2006Hall of Fame7 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 10:41
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
why were you ever prescribed these drugs in the first place? They are known to be very addictive and in the uk (to my knowledge) there has been a deliberate policy to try and avoid drug prescriptions for certain issues when behaviour therapy etc is more effective and safer.

Drugs, whether being used for physical or psychological treatment, only usually mask symptoms and seldom get to the root of the matter, not to mention often having various side effects. Of course, when it's impossible to get to the root or the patient just needs some relief, drugs can be of great use.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 10:51
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'terenceandphilip' wrote at 10:41 on 27 Sep:
why were you ever prescribed these drugs in the first place? They are known to be very addictive and in the uk (to my knowledge) there has been a deliberate policy to try and avoid drug prescriptions for certain issues when behaviour therapy etc is more effective and safer.

Drugs, whether being used for physical or psychological treatment, only usually mask symptoms and seldom get to the root of the matter, not to mention often having various side effects. Of course, when it's impossible to get to the root or the patient just needs some relief, drugs can be of great use.

Anxiety. Prescribed 50 1mg Lorayepam tablets as a starter by a normal GP. Got a tolerance, which lead to abuse. Was eventually cross-tapered with Valium. Tried to stop which was met with horrendous symptoms, looking back it was probably psychosis. Had to go to hospital to come off them.

When I was sent to hospital I was abusing everything, I was a totally different person. 20mg Cipralex, about 20-50mg Valium and 1,500mg(!!) Valpro, also known as Depakote, daily.

Was a hard cycle to break.

I was just wondering if I could have gotten proper help, in the same situation in Aberdeen.
User edit 27 Sep 10:54
tom_fun's avatartom_funUser is Offline Posts: 789Liked: 22 times in 18 postsJoined: January 2011First Team3 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 11:01
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Leon_Mike' wrote at 09:51 on 27 Sep:

Are there addiction centres or wards? If not, surely that is a massive oversight?

I believe there are for alcohol/drug dependency. You can either pay to go and dry out for a set period or can be referred with costs covered by the state.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 11:09
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Ok, that's good to hear.

I read a few weeks ago in the Daily Record *spit* that they have a campaign against methadone, and the amount it costs the state. I found it pretty shocking.

Pretty much everyone on my ward took methadone to control a Heroin habit.

With methadone, subotex, or whatever else they got, none of them took Heroin any more. It literally stopped the craving dead in its tracks.

I asked them about it, and they said it's very hard to come off of, but because it's sponsored by the state, it's free for them and keeps them safe. No more dirty needles, infections etc.

And here's the other point they said - before they were on the substitute, they needed cash to buy Heroin. It was almost impossible to have a job as well as be a hardcore Heroin user, so they had no money to buy it. They ended up stealing, robbing, mugging and just about anything else to fund their habit. The substitute from the State put that to a stop instantly. They didn't have to steal any more and could function as normal as can be on the stuff.

So I can't understand a campaign against the stuff. It comes from the taxpayer sure, but the alternative is to leave these people without an easily attainable source for their addiction, which leads to crime which ALSO costs the taxpayer more.

Surely the substitute is the better alternative??
User edit 27 Sep 11:10
terenceandphilip's avatarterenceandphilipUser is Offline Posts: 17,081Liked: 231 times in 176 postsJoined: December 2006Hall of Fame7 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 12:27
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
well, nothing's perfect I guess - but methadone is harder to come off than smack, so you're never going to be free. Though i agree, it stabilizes many.

did you take a look at drugs-forum website? Very informative and full of real life stuff, rather than government propaganda.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 12:31
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'terenceandphilip' wrote at 12:27 on 27 Sep:
well, nothing's perfect I guess - but methadone is harder to come off than smack, so you're never going to be free. Though i agree, it stabilizes many.

did you take a look at drugs-forum website? Very informative and full of real life stuff, rather than government propaganda.

Yeah, a lot of people in the same situation as me.

One guy in my ward successfully came off Methadone. Said it was extremely difficult and it was over the space of a year, but he did it. He was f'ucking proud.

If you look at Methadone perhaps as something along the lines of other drugs, perhaps such as HIV medication.

It's to stabalise, get the person back on their feet and help them to feel safer. No more infections etc. Honestly the amount of people that used to steal or were jailed for other crimes to feed their smack habit was unreal. These same people were normal, rational human beings on Methadone. Unreal, really.

I just got pissed off at a campaign in a newspaper looking to stop the program without looking at the other side of the coin. Guess that's just the remit of the Record, though!
Redforever1986's avatarRedforever1986User is Offline Posts: 5,947Liked: 164 times in 114 postsJoined: October 2006Hall of Fame8 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 14:25
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
I'm not against the subscription of methadone but I think why some people are against it is because the users quite often stay on it for decades, never have a job, get benefit payments, and take other street drugs on top of it. It's most likely a minority but that's what the press feeds on.

I'd lock them in a box and force them all to go cold turkey if they weren't off methadone after 5 years brutal as **** but it's probably what they need by that stage.
PitchMick2013's avatarPitchMick2013User is Offline Posts: 2,043Liked: 317 times in 219 postsJoined: April 2013Hall of Fame1 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 14:46
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Redforever1986' wrote at 14:25 on 27 Sep:
I'd lock them in a box and force them all to go cold turkey if they weren't off methadone after 5 years brutal as **** but it's probably what they need by that stage.

:s
RicoS321User is Offline Posts: 4,517Liked: 641 times in 438 postsJoined: July 2010Hall of Fame4 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 15:40
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'PitchMick2013' wrote at 14:46 on 27 Sep:
'Redforever1986' wrote at 14:25 on 27 Sep:
I'd lock them in a box and force them all to go cold turkey if they weren't off methadone after 5 years brutal as **** but it's probably what they need by that stage.

:s

It's a'rite min, the box wid hae holes.
The following user likes this post: PitchMick2013
RicoS321User is Offline Posts: 4,517Liked: 641 times in 438 postsJoined: July 2010Hall of Fame4 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 15:45
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Leon_Mike' wrote at 12:31 on 27 Sep:
One guy in my ward successfully came off Methadone.

Whilst he was in hospital, or outside hospital? I suspect most methadoners in this country do so outwith the confines of hospital, thus are unlikely to get off it unless they're really motivated. Maybe. I'm just guessing. It seems that going into hospital as really helped you and others, and that constant attention/assistance is the answer. Doesn't seem a very British solution if I'm honest. Far easier to pass yis on to some ither chunt and then moan about yer drag on society.
Leon_Mike's avatarLeon_MikeUser is Offline Posts: 1,604Liked: 41 times in 32 postsJoined: December 2010Hall of Fame3 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 21:06
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Redforever1986' wrote at 14:25 on 27 Sep:
I'm not against the subscription of methadone but I think why some people are against it is because the users quite often stay on it for decades, never have a job, get benefit payments, and take other street drugs on top of it. It's most likely a minority but that's what the press feeds on.

I'd lock them in a box and force them all to go cold turkey if they weren't off methadone after 5 years brutal as **** but it's probably what they need by that stage.

I know you're joking, but that attitude of making them go cold turkey from methadone would probably kill many of them, and certainly initiate psychosis in most of them. Will your taxpayers then pay for their mental health treatment?
glove87's avatarglove87User is Offline Posts: 3,013Liked: 53 times in 33 postsJoined: January 2009Hall of Fame5 year member
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Posted 27 Sep 2013 23:43
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Leon_Mike' wrote at 21:06 on 27 Sep:
'Redforever1986' wrote at 14:25 on 27 Sep:
I'm not against the subscription of methadone but I think why some people are against it is because the users quite often stay on it for decades, never have a job, get benefit payments, and take other street drugs on top of it. It's most likely a minority but that's what the press feeds on.

I'd lock them in a box and force them all to go cold turkey if they weren't off methadone after 5 years brutal as **** but it's probably what they need by that stage.

I know you're joking, but that attitude of making them go cold turkey from methadone would probably kill many of them, and certainly initiate psychosis in most of them. Will your taxpayers then pay for their mental health treatment?

I think you've been away from the UK too long, the one thing we have a worse attitude to than addiction is mental health. And down here, it's even worse than Scotland. We have 'Care in the Community', which is an utter lie, it's neither care, and there's f*ck all community in London.

We essentially turn loose very ill people who are in need of a great deal of help and support and leave to fend for themselves in situations they can't cope with. But it's OK, because an overworked mental health nurse visits them once a fortnight.

And for all the lurid headlines, remember: a mentally ill person is a far greater risk to themselves than they ever will be to anyone else.
haemoglobinUser is Offline Posts: 139Liked: 4 times in 4 postsJoined: April 2011Trialist3 year member
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Posted 28 Sep 2013 00:00
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
Strongly agree with your harm reductionist approach to drug related public health issues Leon M. Methadone and needle exchanges have saved hundreds or maybe thousands of lives here in Edinburgh since the 80s. Will have to look into the stats. Sad that the red tops (and the media and politicians in general) are taking a prohibitionism only attitude. They don't have a clue what they're doing.

I too have problems with anxiety attacks. No way my GP would give me benzo's though, apart from the time he did when I was called to give evidence in court. CBT for anxiety is ok, but the improvement in mental state is mild and not very long lasting. Full on psychoanalysis is probably the best answer, but must be too expensive for many. There are probably good self-help guides.
JonStrummerUser is Offline Posts: 385Liked: 13 times in 11 postsJoined: March 2011Academy3 year member
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Posted 28 Sep 2013 14:46
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
'Leon_Mike' wrote at 21:06 on 27 Sep:
'Redforever1986' wrote at 14:25 on 27 Sep:
I'm not against the subscription of methadone but I think why some people are against it is because the users quite often stay on it for decades, never have a job, get benefit payments, and take other street drugs on top of it. It's most likely a minority but that's what the press feeds on.

I'd lock them in a box and force them all to go cold turkey if they weren't off methadone after 5 years brutal as **** but it's probably what they need by that stage.

I know you're joking, but that attitude of making them go cold turkey from methadone would probably kill many of them, and certainly initiate psychosis in most of them. Will your taxpayers then pay for their mental health treatment?

Good point LM.
Here, if you have a drug problem, you go to your GP who would then refer you to the Integrated Drug Service.(IDS) For an opioid addiction you would be offered methadone or possibly Suboxone. Nae sure how they deal with benzo addiction but i would think the best you could hope for is some kind of reduction/tapering thing. I dunno if they'd even entertain that as i ken they are extremely reluctant to prescribe any benzos. They must offer some kind of treatment tho as cold turkey is not an option for severe benzo addiction, in fact it can be quite dangerous. I'm sure you could confirm that LM?
I'm well glad you're getting there min. Can i ask you how long you were taking the benzos for before you sought help? After you were on them for a while were you able to go a day without taking any and still function or was that nae an option?
Sorry for the daft questions mate but someone i know has been taking Valium, almost daily, for the last 2 or 3 months now. Usually just 5 - 10mg a day. Recently switched to Etizolam, which is one of the legal 'research chemical' benzo analogs, and is having a go at tapering with that.
Anyway im waffling.
It's good to know benzo addiction can be overcome.
I remember reading some of your posts a while back. Sounds like a hellish experience you've had. Glad you made it.
mainlystandingUser is Offline Posts: 1,538Liked: 124 times in 83 postsJoined: November 2008Hall of Fame6 year member
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Posted 28 Sep 2013 15:52
re: Benzodiazepine Addiction/Withdrawal - Any experience?
The benzo community reduction regime is one eighth the daily dose per fortnight. This is assessed every fortnight and reduction may be stopped if things get tough, which they often do. It's a slow business. Hospital admission is very unusual.

Sometimes Librium is substituted for Valium (there's a dosage equivalent formula) as it seems to be less problematic when reducing. Bottom line is that Benzos are a right b*stard to get off.
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