Originally Posted by
roger_ramjet
"1) The electorate were not presented with the facts...they were presented with lies and half truths.
2) The electorate are not sufficiently capable and were not sufficiently well informed to be able to reach a decision of this complexity.
3) The referendum took place in late June, this is a time when many people take their holidays in order to gain the joint benefits of decent weather and out of school holiday prices. With this in mind it was always likely that some people wouldn’t be able to vote without taking the necessary steps before they went on holiday.
4) Since the Referendum, which many complacently thought would be a ‘shoe in’ for ‘Remain’, the amount of anxiety and pessimism within the business/finance communities has been unprecedentedly high and these feelings need now to be taken notice of.
5) Much has been said about democracy and the voice of the people. I always believed that ‘democracy’ somehow equates to ‘majority rule’...the percentage of people who voted for Brexit is a very long way from ‘majority rule’ or the ‘voice of the people’.
6) Twenty odd months on, despite regularly being told...’Brexit means Brexit’ there is still no one in this country who can thruthfully say they know what ‘sort’ of Brexit we are heading for so how the hell could we vote for it twenty plus months ago?"
OK this is just bait in the trap isnt it. Firstly I agree with Andy - I voted remain but accepted the decision as I had (and still have) severe reservations about where the EU is heading vis a vis USE and the undemocratic way it is set up.
But to take the points one by one:
The electorate were not presented with the facts...they were presented with lies and half truths. This observation, with which I agree, applies equally to both sides of the debate and the accusation can no more be thrown at remainers as it can stayers. The losers simply are claiming that the winners told bigger lies and half truths. I do not believe that to be true.
The electorate are not sufficiently capable and were not sufficiently well informed to be able to reach a decision of this complexity. I agree and the who;le concept of a referendum was fatally flawed, ill defined and misunderstood. But why is this any worse for one side than the other?
The referendum took place in late June, this is a time when many people take their holidays.... this really is clutching at straws. In point of fact those that have the freedom to take holidays in June are most likely those without children and thus likely to be older. If one looks at the voting demographics it is the older people that were more proc leaving, so this would have hurt the leave vote more than the remain vote
Since the Referendum, which many complacently thought would be a ‘shoe in’ for ‘Remain’, the amount of anxiety and pessimism within the business/finance communities has been unprecedentedly high and these feelings need now to be taken notice of. Agreed that the remainers were complacent but that is not anyone's fault apart from remain suporters who couldn't be arsed to vote. You cannot have regard for that. As I recall a "wise" man on here once said that we (DCFC) Needed more complacency in order to succeed. But you cannot get a recount on the basis that "I didn't think my vote would matter" Those feelings do NOT now need to be taken into account. The game is over, you cannot backtrack.
Much has been said about democracy and the voice of the people. I always believed that ‘democracy’ somehow equates to ‘majority rule’...the percentage of people who voted for Brexit is a very long way from ‘majority rule’ or the ‘voice of the people’. Adi has addressed this above; the democratic right to vote was enabled for anyone of current voting age. Those that chose not to vote did so of their own free will and there is no right to presume that the one third who ducked out would have been representative of one faction or the other. Those who chose not to vote surrendered their right to representation - and note historically the young end of the spectrum are those that tend not to vote in elections, but in this case that trend was overturned. Thus a good argument could be raised that the disinterested were narrowly in favour of leave. If people will not speak, then the voice that is heard excludes them at their own cost.
Twenty odd months on, despite regularly being told...’Brexit means Brexit’ there is still no one in this country who can thruthfully say they know what ‘sort’ of Brexit we are heading for so how the hell could we vote for it twenty plus months ago? And your point is? We did vote, we may have got it right, we may have got it wrong (I sense you favour the latter perspective) but the fact remains we did. I dont remember you complaining about having to vote at the time - but I may be wrong.
Sorry these continuing gripes do sound like the bitter and twisted ramblings of someone who lost a game. I would expect it following Bobby Zamora's goal - we wuz robbed - but this is not quite the same.