The only time I'll agree with you on this thread ;)
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This was a decent thread but is getting truly tiresome now. It's not called 'standing up for yourself' at all. What you're doing at the moment is pure mischief making and **** stirring. The fact that for the second time in very recent posts you've used the term 'pacifist' as an intended insult tells me all I need to know and I don't actually use the terms bigot, racist etc 'every time someone says something I don't like'...I use the terms as and when appropriate...which they sometimes, certainly not always, are.
'We know how it works', you say...just out of interest...who are 'we' and what is 'it'? Doubtless 'we' means all the decent inoffensive folk you pretend to be representative of and 'it' is the terrible 'left/liberal' conspiracy which is out to get you...but I await correction and clarification if you want to offer it.
Blaming the EU for all of Britain’s ills has been pure displacement activity. Contrary to some of the rhetoric, the EU has not hogtied the UK in regulation and has not drained funds from the Exchequer. Being a member of the EU is not the reason that Britain has failed to live up to its self-image as a ‘proud trading nation’. Britain’s ills − and there are many, as this vote has revealed − are self-inflicted.
Nor has EU membership made Britain less secure domestically or influential internationally. Being in the EU has generally complemented the UK’s military and diplomatic objectives, whether in dealing with Russia, Iran or ISIS. Britain in the EU was not in ‘managed decline’, as one pro-Leave politician described it again this morning – in fact, as those same politicians often pointed out, the UK is prospering as the world’s fifth-largest economy and has remained one of its most powerful nations.
I think I preferred sweary cursing abusive Swale to this more rational and sensible one 😊
Nice to see swale being civilised again, I agree. But he's wrong on so many counts.
I don't any rational brexiteer blames all our ills on the eu, but there a few down to the eu and I, like many, feel we will do better without the eu.
The eu hasn't drained our finances, but it is a drain on them. We pay 350m a week but receive back about half in grants and subsidies. That costs money and is undisputed.
We are not hogtied by by eu rules and regulations, but we are certainly restricted by them. I have suffered then in business, my small farmer friend has to work with the same rules as a much larger French farmer, whereas the rules are fine for the large farm, they are stupid for the small farmer renting individual fields of other people. Then there's a local road development which had some eu finding, resulting in a bus lane on a busy dual carriageway, for 4 buses an hour at peak time, and over a half mile detour for cars!
What a ridiculous statement to say we are no less secure. We are now relying on EVERY eu country to have enough controls when granting asylum. 1 weak country can allow anyone to become an eu citizen and therefore free movement to the UK.
To say the eu compliments our objectives, is only true if we agree with the rest of the eu.
Military wise, I can't remember seeing many eu operations, but I do recall frequent NATO exercises.
The eu has many problems and I think they'll increase with further expansion. As I've said before, to stay in the eu is as big, probably bigger gamble than leaving, who knows where the eu will end up? Incidently, were you in favour of joining the Euro?
More seriously...good to see things being conducted respectfully and meaningfully again. I see today though that the right wing U.S. website - Breitbart - has been reporting that a mob chanting 'Allahu Akbar' had set alight a church in Dortmund on New Year's Eve. All completely fake according to Dortmund police. Nothing untoward happened at all but 'unfortunately' the rumour was already out that '1000 militant Muslim's had attacked Germany's oldest church'.
This is something we have to be very careful of...it was typified by the lies surrounding both our own Referendum and the Trump campaign. Apparently we're entering the 'post truth' era...well that's just bollux imo...if it ain't true it's untrue/lies and we need to take great care where innuendo and anecdote are concerned these days.