Thoughts on the match

This Leeds team has the look of a side that will do extremely well this season. However, we made life easy for them. The ref cannot be accused of being a homer.

Can't blame Carson for the defeat.
The fullbacks are constantly looking to bomb on and leave us, basically, with a back 2. I think they are playing to orders and any blame lies with FL. As has already been suggested, a back 3 might be a good idea (Wisdom, Tomori, Davies?) We could then use Bogle at RWB and Lowe on the left. Evans at DM. Mount and Lawrence ahead of the DM in a sort of inside forward role. Pick any two of the strikers to play up top.
We were overrun in midfield where they always seemed to have men over. Hardly surprising as they play 4 in MF to our 3. The problem is that we have stopped the pressing and harrying that undid Soton and the Dog'eads. We are also standing off opponents again. Their 1st for instance. Lowe lost the ball well inside their half. Two passes saw the ball at Klich's feet, centrally and 20 yards out AND in acres of space. He chose his spot and put it away well. All too often they had men in space to give the ball to.
Only 1 of the 3 midfielders is a proper creative player. That is a problem IMO.
Up front Lawro looked dangerous but after one too many kicks he disappeared. Waghorn did that "not jumping for headers" thing that Martin is so good at. Showed flashes. Wilson also started brightly but faded out.

The ref? As I said, definitely not a homer. Booked 5 of ours, most justified IMO. 2 of theirs, Bamford and Alioski, both late on. For the rest of the game he either didn't give us free kicks we should have had and when he did, he failed to card the offence despite it being worse than any of the offences Derby players got booked for.

On the positive side, we won't play a side that good every week.

Yep two attacking full backs in a back four leaves you horribly exposed. It only works if everyone moves round one to cover the committed defender.

We still don't have enough steel in midfield. Ledley looked like he was treading water and couldn't run, Mount is (or at least will be) more of a creator) which left Bryson pretty much alone as the engine.

Save the odd clever pass I've seen nothing of Wilson to suggest he should be starting in front of Jozefzoon.

Leeds outclassed, out passed, out fought and out thought us and most of that will have been down to the wiley old head of Biesla.

Carson couldn't do a thing about any of the goals and probably prevented others.

Wisdom is not the player we first had on loan and were praying we would sign.

We need to loan someone for the season to fill the vacant No.5 shirt and FL need a to quickly realise that to play out from the back you need ball playing centre halves - in the past two games Keogh has produced the worst display of passing I've ever seen from him. He is a stopper, a good winner of headers and occasionally effective bringing the ball out of defence. When you pass the ball with the wrong part of your foot your range is going to be limited.

Davies and Tomori could make a very good pairing with a decent minder in front of them.

There will be a lot to cover in training this week.

Well done to Leeds, yesterday was a lesson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MadAmster

This Leeds team has the look of a side that will do extremely well this season. However, we made
life easy for them. The ref cannot be accused of being a homer.

Can't blame Carson for the defeat.
The fullbacks are constantly looking to bomb on and leave us, basically, with a back 2. I think they are playing to orders and any blame lies with FL. As has already been suggested, a back 3 might be a good idea (Wisdom, Tomori, Davies?) We could then use Bogle at RWB and Lowe on the left. Evans at DM. Mount and Lawrence ahead of the DM in a sort of inside forward role. Pick any two of the strikers to play up top.
We were overrun in midfield where they always seemed to have men over. Hardly surprising as they play 4 in MF to our 3. The problem is that we have stopped the pressing and harrying that undid Soton and the Dog'eads. We are also standing off opponents again. Their 1st for instance. Lowe lost the ball well inside their half. Two passes saw the ball at Klich's feet, centrally and 20 yards out AND in acres of space. He chose his spot and put it away well. All too often they had men in space to give the ball to.
Only 1 of the 3 midfielders is a proper creative player. That is a problem IMO.
Up front Lawro looked dangerous but after one too many kicks he disappeared. Waghorn did that "not jumping for headers" thing that Martin is so good at. Showed flashes. Wilson also started brightly but faded out.

The ref? As I said, definitely not a homer. Booked 5 of ours, most justified IMO. 2 of theirs, Bamford and Alioski, both late on. For the rest of the game he either didn't give us free kicks we should have had and when he did, he failed to card the offence despite it being worse than any of the offences Derby players got booked for.

On the positive side, we won't play a side that good every week.

---

MA you are right FL can't escape criticism for that performance I said after the Reading game you can't play Bryson and Mount in midfield to similar both want to get forward all the time leaving massive gaps As for Lowe i kept telling you he can't defend he's a wing back nothing else Incidently probably our worst player over the two games Lawrence has scored two goals Hard to find positives from yesterday but I thought Timori looked a decent player I think it was you who said we might play him DM that's a good shout he's strong fast skilful would do a good job I know we have Evans maybe go down the Rowetts road and use two DM s

Leeds are a team who have been playing mostly this way for a season or two now, Bielsa is the salt and pepper.

Derby are just starting out, if anything it should be a blessing in disguise (stay with me) a massive opportunity to learn from the video analysis of that game. What they did well and what we did wrong.

Yes we were very disorganised at the back for the most part, but in my opinion this is not Frank's ideal back 4 and DM. Davies Huge loss, Keogh often struggles in situations like that but I'm not pointing any fingers at him. Our shape is just not right at the moment. And it's very very important if you want to play out from the back. I think Tomori and Malone full backs with Hudds in front of defence is more like how we'll end up.

Spot on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derby2die4

Leeds are a team who have been playing mostly this way
for a season or two now, Bielsa is the salt and pepper.

Derby are just starting out, if anything it should be a blessing in disguise (stay with me) a massive opportunity to learn from the video analysis of that game. What they did well and what we did wrong.

Yes we were very disorganised at the back for the most part, but in my opinion this is not Frank's ideal back 4 and DM. Davies Huge loss, Keogh often struggles in situations like that but I'm not pointing any fingers at him. Our shape is just not right at the moment. And it's very very important if you want to play out from the back. I think Tomori and Malone full backs with Hudds in front of defence is more like how we'll end up.

---

Yes that's a great summing up They can look at videos all day though but do they really learn much They must have watched the Reading match over again but same mistakes happened Your right about the shape especially midfield but the squad is short of another quality midfielder to play with Mount we need a Bannon Malone will make a big difference could turn out to be FL best signing

Have to say lads that we are probably as surprised as your team where yesterday, That's 2 good wins against two good teams, although we did start well last season - this time round we look a lot better. Funny thing is there are only two new players from the team that finished 13th last season - Klitch [Who was out on loan virtually all of last term] and the steal of the season Douglas from Wolves - the fundamental difference is the manager who seems to have not only changed the teams style of play but also their fitness, but we're not getting carried away just yet.
I think Frank will settle in and sort things pretty quickly for you to be honest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tichi1

Have to say lads that we are probably as surprised as your team where yesterday, That's 2 good wins against
two good teams, although we did start well last season - this time round we look a lot better. Funny thing is there are only two new players from the team that finished 13th last season - Klitch [Who was out on loan virtually all of last term] and the steal of the season Douglas from Wolves - the fundamental difference is the manager who seems to have not only changed the teams style of play but also their fitness, but we're not getting carried away just yet.
I think Frank will settle in and sort things pretty quickly for you to be honest.

---

Tich you didn't play a good team yesterday we were awful Really like the way you play not only very effective it's also very entertaining We are in transition need to be patient and hold our heads We've practically got a new team and trying to play totally different than under Rowett
It's bound to have its glitches I've got a strong feeling this could be your year but you know the Championship it never does what you think it will do Anyway good luck for the season you may be need a more experienced goalie but he did well against the Stokies

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tichi1

Have to say lads that we are probably as surprised as your team where yesterday, That's 2 good wins against two good teams, although we did start well last season - this time round we look a lot better. Funny thing is there are only two new players from the team that finished 13th last season - Klitch [Who was out on loan virtually all of last term] and the steal of the season Douglas from Wolves - the fundamental difference is the manager who seems to have not only changed the teams style of play but also their fitness, but we're not getting carried away just yet.
I think Frank will settle in and sort things pretty quickly for you to be honest.

---

Now that’s what opposing fans visiting a forum should be about.
No gloating, and he has every reason to, just an honest interpretation of what went on. Forest contributors please note!
Thanks Tichi...can’t say I hope you go up - it would change the habit of a lifetime - but on the evidence of yesterday you’ve got a good and entertaining side who outplayed us completely.

Leeds looked good but they looked good last season up to about a dozen games and then bump. We went on a great run and me for one thought it was going to be our season then like Leeds bump! 2 games in and Leeds are going to be champions while we will be mid-table, seen and heard it all before. This is a really tough league and results and positions in the table will change on a regular basis.
Our two games have shown that our defence has been atrocious and midfield has been overrun, let's wait and see what the new boys bring.
We've signed 9 players so think there are going to be some big changes in the coming weeks. I can't see Keogh and Ledley getting many more games and Bryson and Lowe will be relegated to the bench. It takes at least 10 games to get into it and by Christmas we should have an idea how far we've come under Frank!