OT: Old Mrs. May's fudge shoppe

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Originally Posted by PedroTheFisherman66

They are all at fault..
The Hard liners should have come forward after the disaster that was the election.
They should have had one of their own negotiating with the EU so they could lay down from day one what the UK wanted and was expecting....but they backed an ailing leader so they could retain power instead of risk loosing another election.
Then the negotiating could have begun..
instead the Tories were just interested in appeasing the Nation to remain in power ,
obviously incorporating a 1 billion pound deal with the DUP to help them retain power !
The result ,
no direction no leadership , 1 billion scrumped from our Magic Money Tree,that we did not have for the nurses....( it must have been a fast growing Tree!!)
May has lied to the nation and her party about what she was going to do ..all along she wanted the soft Brexit..so why did Brexit mean Brexit and not soft Brexit.....??
because .. saying it out loud would have cost her and the party Power !!!

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Because she's publicly committed herself and us, to leaving the customs union and as the EU have so far not made a single concession on anything, literally nothing, we can't have a soft Brexit?

Unless the EU start to make serious concessions, if we stick to leaving the customs union, I think there will be a no agreement scenario.

Our negotiators just have not made a fist of the fact that we have 40 billion quid that thy want to get their sweaty hands on.

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Originally Posted by sidders

Never mind Mrs May's Fudge Shoppe, what about Jolly Jeremy's Joke Shop? Here is a moment at which the Tories are wide open and ready for a decisive counter, where the country is ready for firm leadership, and not a word from Labour.
Last Wednesday when McVey was similarly vulnerable and should have been taken to the cleaners, what did Jezzer choose as the theme for PM's Question Time? The bloody buses.
What about asking Gareth Southgate to form a cabinet?

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I think JC fully understands that there is no point in a soft Brexit where we get all the disadvantages (paying through the nose, having rules dictated to us) and none of the advantages (being able to do support our own industries in whatever way we choose, being free to strike trade deals with non EU countries).

In that sense, he is honouring the referendum result, and dragging some elements of his party with him the best he can. It is not up to him to drive your liberal agenda, he has many MPs from Leave voting constituencies, like Vernon Coaker where I live in Gedling.

His best plan is to stand back and watch the Tories destroy themselves, and they are doing a fine job of that without any outside help.

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Originally Posted by Bohinen

His best plan is to stand back and watch the Tories destroy themselves, and they are doing a fine job of that without any outside help.

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In normal times I would completely agree. However, these are not normal times. If the governments own forecasts are even close to being correct then a no deal Brexit would be a complete disaster for the UK economy and as such would seriously compromise government spending for a generation. In this scenario Corbyn may become PM but would be completely hamstrung.

He and the wider political class need to be honest with the public, Brexit is either soft and whilst not being as harmful in the short-term is worse than what we have now. Or we can go full no-deal Brexit and significantly harm the UK economy. Both scenarios are unpalatable.

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Originally Posted by Mapperleypie

In normal times I would completely agree. However, these are not normal times. If the governments own forecasts are even close to being correct then a no deal Brexit would be a complete disaster for the UK economy and as such would seriously compromise government spending for a generation. In this scenario Corbyn may become PM but would be completely hamstrung.

He and the wider political class need to be honest with the public, Brexit is either soft and whilst not being as harmful in the short-term is worse than what we have now. Or we can go full no-deal Brexit and significantly harm the UK economy. Both scenarios are unpalatable.

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Corbyn is much the same boat as the Conservatives, he has a party made up of some old school socialists who want out the EU and some younger pro-EU members, his party is also financed by donations from unions which are pro-EU.

He's keeping his cards close to his chest because he can, but sooner or later he'll have to risk upsetting someone too.

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Originally Posted by Mapperleypie

In normal times I would completely agree. However, these are not normal times. If the governments own forecasts are even close to being correct then a no deal Brexit would be a complete disaster for the UK economy and as such would seriously compromise government spending for a generation. In this scenario Corbyn may become PM but would be completely hamstrung.

He and the wider political class need to be honest with the public, Brexit is either soft and whilst not being as harmful in the short-term is worse than what we have now. Or we can go full no-deal Brexit and significantly harm the UK economy. Both scenarios are unpalatable.

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I am traditionally a Labour voter but cannot help but smile that you think JC's spending would be 'hamstrung', after the last Labour government left a jokey note for the chancellor to the effect that they'd almost bankrupted the country through over spending!

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Originally Posted by Bohinen

His best plan is to stand back and watch the Tories destroy themselves, and they are doing a fine job of that without any outside help.

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Starmar seems to be doing a fine job today as he always does. Corbyn delegates very well!
But this continues to be about the tories and their attempt to screw the country, failing miserably, and screwing the country in a diferent way anyway - but hopefully themselves as well in the process.
Glad to see the back of the lazy, incompetent DD. He should have gone for the impact assessment saga alone.

There are impact assessments
Errrrr there are no impact assessments
Well, errr, there are but they're difficult, you know
No, there aren't any actually
Err there are but they're wrong anyway. I don't believe them myself
There aren't any, but those there are we'll redact and release
That OK for you?

What a useless tosser and complete hypocrite. Good riddance

On Davis, good piece in the Independent

Then, in May 2016, the soon to be Brexit secretary explained how, “post-Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else. Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations. France would want to protect £3bn of food and wine exports. Italy, its £1bn fashion exports. Poland its £3bn manufacturing exports.”

Now, having been Europe Minister for three years between 1994 and 1997, you or I might imagine the now former Brexit Secretary to have been aware that his proposal here, that “key EU nations” would strike deals with Britain independently of one another and independently of the EU, is entirely illegal under EU law, and so stood zero per cent chance of ever happening. But you or I simply lack the visionary powers of David Davis.

Its terrifying that our futures are in the hands of bozos like David Davis

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8438346.html

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Originally Posted by the_anticlough

On Davis, good piece in the Independent

[I]Then, in May 2016, the soon to be Brexit secretary explained how; post-Brexit a UK-German deal would include free access for their cars and industrial goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else. Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations. France would want to protect £3bn of food and wine exports. Italy, its £1bn fashion exports. Poland its £3bn manufacturing exports

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Yes that's what most Brexiters on here were saying at the time.

They said we'd just rock up to negotiations and refuse to give them access to our massive market of 60 million people until they caved in and gave us everything we wanted.

Then when the EU prioritised keeping the single market of hundreds of millions of people intact, which was entirely predictable, these people seemed to blame the nasty EU for ruining their watertight plan by being good at negotiating.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

Yes that's what most Brexiters on here were saying at the time.

They said we'd just rock up to negotiations and refuse to give them access to our massive market of 60 million people until they caved in and gave us everything we wanted.

Then when the EU prioritised keeping the single market of hundreds of millions of people intact, which was entirely predictable, these people seemed to blame the nasty EU for ruining their watertight plan by being good at negotiating.

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That's the strategy in a nut shell 1) Tell a pack of lies 2) Blame the foreigners

What a shambles today is turning out to be.

At least the government will now have time to formulate a plan on how to proceed, then we can trigger article 50.