September 11th 2001 Recollections

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Originally Posted by BogBrush1903

Which reminds me that I read Curtis Stigers (I'm not a fan) watched the disaster unfold from an Aberdeen hotel room as he had a gig that night at The Lemon Tree.... like a true pro the show at The Lemon Tree went ahead as planned...

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‘Youre all that matters to me’ could be described as lacklustre at best that night. Damn you Bin Laden

On a personal level September 11th took on some degree of symbolic significance. I had only turned 18 the month before and I had been idling away the final summer of my childhood at home while waiting to start uni at Edinburgh in October (had a really cushy admin job where I listened to music for 8 hours a day while completing mindless data entry). Literally ended with a crash. My folks had also just moved back to Aberdeen after 4 years in the US so at the time I had a fairly strong attachment to the place.

I was at home alone when my sister rang and said something about a plane crash. When she said "World Trade Centre", at first I thought she had said "Trinity Centre"! I turned on the TV shortly after the 2nd plane had hit.

Two clearest memories after that are the collapse of the south tower (still seems surreal thinking back) and then my mum returning home shortly afterwards. She had a friend staying with us and I rushed out to meet them in the driveway. I asked them if they had heard/seen what had happened. They clearly hadn't but from their facial expressions they could obviously tell from my manner that it was something very bad.

I was at work watching it all on a Black & White TV in disbelief. I was on the 121st floor public gallery level just 5 months before. To this day I can still picture my way around up there, as well as the tube station and shops underneath, the ticket payment level (5th floor?) and small things like the little old lady selling the scarves at the top, the scaled down model 'village' of New York and much more. Sad day indeed. Hoping my 2nd and further posts will be on better & lighter & Rams-based subjects!!! UTR

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Originally Posted by InversneckieDob

I was up the Towers about six weeks or so before they came down, nae exactly a near miss but still a wee bit of a head f u ck.

To this day still the best burger I've ever eaten was in the restaurant at the top "Windows on the World".

It was just a bit odd, thinking abut the lassie that served us (you know what American waiting staff are like, they'll just blether for ever....particularly with the Scottish accent) or the guy at the bar that served my beer, wondering what become of them......if they were on the breakfast shift that day.....just felt strange.

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Doesn't bear thinking about the folk who were trapped above the impact, especially those in the north tower who had no chance whatsoever. They were also trapped in a much smaller segment of the building closer to the fire and had to wait longer for the inevitable. Basically trapped in a cooker for 90 minutes. No wonder so many chose to end it quickly.

In theory, most of those who were killed in the south tower could have escaped had they known which stairwell was clear. I remember reading that one of the firefighters who was a marathon runner made it above the impact zone in the south tower just before the collapse and found a large group of people, many severely injured. Scant consolation and so many of the firefighters lost their lives for naught but at least it would have given those people a sense of hope in their final moments.

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Originally Posted by BogBrush1903

I wouldn't dream of getting your logical reasoning suckered into a debate with a crank like me.

I did mention oddities though and wasn't trying to build a legal case around a passport found in the debris. I've heard that 'personal items' of other passengers were found but not passports, ids or bank cards. It would be interesting to know your source...

With regards Bush, I find it a lovely thought that he didn't want to "scare the kids" but hard to believe. Bush may have been as thick as mince; however, his security is the responsibility of the Secret Service and not his call.

As I say, I have no doubt that the plan was devised in Hamburg and carried out by those Hamburg conspirators and they did exploit lax security. They used the rhetoric of Bin Laden & Al-Zawahiri as inspiration. I have no arguments with that.

All I said was that there was oddities, of which I mentioned a couple, that have never been properly answered

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Passport: Not found a passport yet but to be honest, as I've said before how lax security was at the time and as it was an internal flight, the majority of the flight would not have required to show a passport and unlikely to have brought it with them.

Here's some id and bank card of Judith “Judy” Larocque:- http://amhistory.si.edu/september11/...cord.asp?ID=32

http://amhistory.si.edu/september11/...cord.asp?ID=32

Here's the bank card of Waleed Iskandar

https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMi..._Bank_Card.jpg

Lisa Ann Frost bank card:-

https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMi...ileageCard.jpg

Anyway, why would the Satam al Suqami passport be planted? The Plane's manifest could be examined so they would know exactly who was on the plane fairly quickly.

And regarding Bush, what is the other explanation for Bush dithering for 6 1/2 minutes, what else could it be? It probably was the Secret Service responsibility and as I said, they were probably working through the confusion, trying to establish what was going on and where they were going to move the president to. How is any of this sinister and to what end?

I’m generally a believer in the banality of evil so my default position is despite all the f*cked up things done by members of our race, the 9/11 conspiracy theories tell a story of evil that is too cartoonish. Individual humans can commit great evil motivated by pure self interest but a conspiracy usually requires an overriding moral justification or collective delusion to commit evil or collective self interest to hide evil from sight. It’s rare for humans to conspire together to proactively commit a great evil in a purely selfish pursuit. We fear the judgment of our fellow man.

On a different note, this really brings it home. Leaves you with an empty feeling inside:
https://youtu.be/fC_AHSacEDg
https://youtu.be/JzKI9TBR-XQ

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Originally Posted by StandfreeFM

Passport: Not found a passport yet but to be honest, as I've said before how lax security was at the time and as it was an internal flight, the majority of the flight would not have required to show a passport and unlikely to have brought it with them.

Here's some id and bank card of Judith “Judy” Larocque:- http://amhistory.si.edu/september11/...cord.asp?ID=32

http://amhistory.si.edu/september11/...cord.asp?ID=32

Here's the bank card of Waleed Iskandar

https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMi..._Bank_Card.jpg

Lisa Ann Frost bank card:-

https://www.metabunk.org/data/MetaMi...ileageCard.jpg

Anyway, why would the Satam al Suqami passport be planted? The Plane's manifest could be examined so they would know exactly who was on the plane fairly quickly.

And regarding Bush, what is the other explanation for Bush dithering for 6 1/2 minutes, what else could it be? It probably was the Secret Service responsibility and as I said, they were probably working through the confusion, trying to establish what was going on and where they were going to move the president to. How is any of this sinister and to what end?

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A remarkable discovery then in timing (being discovered before the towers collapse and amid the confusion), and in the fact that, for all intents and purposes, a paper document should survive enough to be identifiable from the fireball of the crash. However, all US passengers flying on internal flights had to have government issued photo id that matched the name on the ticket which was a response to the TWA Flight 800 crash of 1996. Therefore, the rule was only 5 years old so perhaps still being enforced on September 11th.


I'm less convinced with the stalling of Bush at the school. You would've thought that there would've been an exit strategy in case of an emergency prepared by the Secret Service. However, I can provide no explanation what benefit it would be to leave Bush sitting there like a deer caught in the headlights.

Again though I never mentioned anything that was sinister afoot. I merely said that there was oddities that I didn't feel had been addressed.

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

I’m generally a believer in the banality of evil so my default position is despite all the f*cked up things done by members of our race, the 9/11 conspiracy theories tell a story of evil that is too cartoonish. Individual humans can commit great evil motivated by pure self interest but a conspiracy usually requires an overriding moral justification or collective delusion to commit evil or collective self interest to hide evil from sight. It’s rare for humans to conspire together to proactively commit a great evil in a purely selfish pursuit. We fear the judgment of our fellow man.

On a different note, this really brings it home. Leaves you with an empty feeling inside:
https://youtu.be/fC_AHSacEDg
https://youtu.be/JzKI9TBR-XQ

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Let Stigers fill yir emptiness min...dig in


https://youtu.be/lRggnvhS0Wk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ragnarok

I’m generally a believer in the banality of evil so my default position is despite all the f*cked up things done by members of our race, the 9/11 conspiracy theories tell a story of evil that is too cartoonish. Individual humans can commit great evil motivated by pure self interest but a conspiracy usually requires an overriding moral justification or collective delusion to commit evil or collective self interest to hide evil from sight. It’s rare for humans to conspire together to proactively commit a great evil in a purely selfish pursuit. We fear the judgment of our fellow man.

On a different note, this really brings it home. Leaves you with an empty feeling inside:
https://youtu.be/fC_AHSacEDg
https://youtu.be/JzKI9TBR-XQ

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Indeed, but whether 9/11 was an 'inside job' (which we seem to all agree it wasn't) or by 19 hijackers then it was still the result of a conspiracy...

11.09.73

Allende deposed by military coup, led by Thatcher's mate Pinochet.

The other one in 2001 - at work, and me and the Christian wifie who was my assistant asked the same question, "When will the west stop giving nutters the reason to hate us?"