I voted yes....but felt like I'd been kicked in the ba's the day

[noahrab]

Talking about Incandescent wi rage and he appears feckin magic that min.

If you don't have the answer just say wee man, it's not as if its an important issue...

[stewarty27]

Blank piece of paper time.

We become independent tomorrow and carry no debt.

Show us income and expenditure for iScotland.

Right now Scotland is NOT independent, the levers of the economy belong to the government of the UK (where they’ve been for quite some time now) and any hypothetical financial doomsday scenario projected for an independent Scotland is just that… hypothetical. I have no idea what measures an independent Scottish government would have taken over the past eigh**** months, for the simple reason that whole independence thing DIDN’T HAPPEN. But if you are looking for a Government who have made a right C**T of running an economy I give you Westminster 1.6 Trill Debt. And before you start your nonsense about blaming WM its their mismanagement that has to the state of ALL these islands. I suppose its about confidence I have confidence that Scotland has all the resources and the talent to manage our economy you on the other hand think we're economic basket cases and take every opportunity to try and ram that down our throats.

[noahrab]

Right now Scotland is NOT independent, the levers of the economy belong to the government of the UK (where they’ve been for quite some time now) and any hypothetical financial doomsday scenario projected for an independent Scotland is just that… hypothetical. I have no idea what measures an independent Scottish government would have taken over the past eigh**** months, for the simple reason that whole independence thing DIDN’T HAPPEN. But if you are looking for a Government who have made a right C**T of running an economy I give you Westminster 1.6 Trill Debt. And before you start your nonsense about blaming WM its their mismanagement that has to the state of ALL these islands. I suppose its about confidence I have confidence that Scotland has all the resources and the talent to manage our economy you on the other hand think we're economic basket cases and take every opportunity to try and ram that down our throats.

You never answered the question son.

Have another go.

[54FairAndSquare]

Right now Scotland is NOT independent, the levers of the economy belong to the government of the UK (where they’ve been for quite some time now) and any hypothetical financial doomsday scenario projected for an independent Scotland is just that… hypothetical. I have no idea what measures an independent Scottish government would have taken over the past eigh**** months, for the simple reason that whole independence thing DIDN’T HAPPEN. But if you are looking for a Government who have made a right C**T of running an economy I give you Westminster 1.6 Trill Debt. And before you start your nonsense about blaming WM its their mismanagement that has to the state of ALL these islands. I suppose its about confidence I have confidence that Scotland has all the resources and the talent to manage our economy you on the other hand think we're economic basket cases and take every opportunity to try and ram that down our throats.

Another cut and paste from the SNP Ministry of Truth

[noahrab]

Another cut and paste from the SNP Ministry of Truth

You mean those are not wee stuartie's words?

Im shocked.

[JackSnakes]

Blank piece of paper time.

We become independent tomorrow and carry no debt.

Show us income and expenditure for iScotland.

I think that is a reasonable question. Not sure if the figures are readily available to Joe Public but, since everyone, Yes or No, seems to be a fkn expert, you would think it would be easy enough to find them...

The issue isn't really about income and expenditure though, and the current figures would have to be adjusted to show increases where iScotland would be managing it's own postal service, DVLA, ministry of defence etc, and decreases where we no longer subscribe to Trident, DVLA, Ministry of defence etc...
I do believe that, as I have already said, Scotland has the means and the expertise to manage its own affairs, but whether it would have the confidence of the international markets that a country needs to survive in this day and age is another matter. No debt would be interesting - no debt = no interest. UK pays £4bn a month in interest... that is a scary number.
The fact is the whole thing is conjecture on the part of both camps. It would be nice if there was an impartial body that would give us a best guess that could be relied upon, instead of hysterical 'No' proponents screaming doom, gloom and disaster, and the 'Yes' dreamers saying it will be raining gold coins the day after independence is declared.
I believe people just want some honesty. How hard can it be?

[noahrab]

I think that is a reasonable question. Not sure if the figures are readily available to Joe Public but, since everyone, Yes or No, seems to be a fkn expert, you would think it would be easy enough to find them...

The issue isn't really about income and expenditure though, and the current figures would have to be adjusted to show increases where iScotland would be managing it's own postal service, DVLA, ministry of defence etc, and decreases where we no longer subscribe to Trident, DVLA, Ministry of defence etc...
I do believe that, as I have already said, Scotland has the means and the expertise to manage its own affairs, but whether it would have the confidence of the international markets that a country needs to survive in this day and age is another matter. No debt would be interesting - no debt = no interest. UK pays £4bn a month in interest... that is a scary number.
The fact is the whole thing is conjecture on the part of both camps. It would be nice if there was an impartial body that would give us a best guess that could be relied upon, instead of hysterical 'No' proponents screaming doom, gloom and disaster, and the 'Yes' dreamers saying it will be raining gold coins the day after independence is declared.
I believe people just want some honesty. How hard can it be?

Thats all I want, honesty.

Those who want independence need to do better to convince people like me to go for it.

The blank piece of paper scenario shouldn't be too difficult for some economist to answer.

Its the easiest way to explain how our finances would look and I can't for the life of me understand how they shy away from it.

[JackSnakes]

Thats all I want, honesty.

Those who want independence need to do better to convince people like me to go for it.

The blank piece of paper scenario shouldn't be too difficult for some economist to answer.

Its the easiest way to explain how our finances would look and I can't for the life of me understand how they shy away from it.

I think it is a tad more difficult than many believe.
It looks easy when people are throwing this £15bn deficit number around, but the actual fact is that this is absolutely no indication whatsoever of where an independent Scotland would sit financially. This figure is only the difference between what Scotland gave to the treasury, and what Scotland paid out in public spending last year. As has been pointed out, this is the first year in quite some time that the number is actually negative - but the surplus hasn't gone into some nice big wallet with 'Scotland' stamped on it... historically (ie, up until this latest figure) Scotland has been making money for the UK. It is therefore a wee bit of a cheek for people to try to slap nationalists around the face with this latest figure and try to use it as an indication that Scotland would not survive on its own.
I think the fact that it is all conjecture is why no-one wants to say that what they are stating is fact.
It obviously isn't that easy

[neilo]

I think it is a tad more difficult than many believe.
It looks easy when people are throwing this £15bn deficit number around, but the actual fact is that this is absolutely no indication whatsoever of where an independent Scotland would sit financially. This figure is only the difference between what Scotland gave to the treasury, and what Scotland paid out in public spending last year.



As has been pointed out, this is the first year in quite some time that the number is actually negative

I'm pretty certain that simply isn't true at all.


* I'm being pedantic but the way you describe the flow of money there is interesting. Scotland does indeed pay its revenue to the treasury but rather than Scotland then paying out money in public spending it is actually this money the UK government spends on Scotland. Keeping services running in the years that Scotland hasn't made enough to cover it.

[Taintedice]

tories - put folk on the dole or into low-paid zero-hour contracts to help out their mates in the boardroom
labour - put folk into non-jobs in the public sector through massive public spending leading to eventual collapse of the economy
result - huge public sector deficit across the UK which Scotland gets to share in. What's not to like.