O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[KerrAvon]

.....just yet, obviously.......please keep up....

Any idea when he is going to stop fiddling and spring, tiger like, into action?

[KerrAvon]

Yep, I do understand that. But my statement is not suggesting that we remain in the SM and CU, but that we have a deal that aligns with it, that takes in some benefits but obviously makes some concessions. In return, we ask for concessions from them on FoM and ECJ. You seem very reluctant to admit that the EU would budge, bearing in mind that you have spent the last week trying to sell May’s deal to everyone on here based on the generous deal that the EU had offered us! Maybe they would offer us similarly generous terms on a deal that favoured them more than May’s deal?

Haven’t you noticed that Corbyn has had talks with the EU negotiating team. But you are (deliberately I think) reducing this position to us asking for “all the benefits of membership with none of the costs and obligations”. That is clearly not what I am saying – I’m asking that we negotiate for some of the benefits at the expense of some of the obligations. Absolutely this would not please the No Deal Brexiteers but we both know that no deal is possible that will do so. They’re going to take to the streets at anything barring a No deal.

No, I don’t like the deal on the table but I would accept it if it came to that v No Deal. But I think that it is still possible to negotiate better but the only chance of getting a deal through the commons is to go in the direction I’ve stated. Can you think of another deal that might get through? Please suggest it as no one here can seem to see it.

Of course, this is a long shot but at least it’s a possibility. Whether we do go down this route or agree (out of fatigue and boredom) that May’s deal + re-wording of a couple of sentences is the best that we can get, then I guess we have to then put that to the people with Exit on WTO v The Deal and let the public decide once and for all. Can you think of anything fairer and less damaging to the economy?

Lol. In what way is your proposed ‘alignment’ going to work? Can you expand upon what you mean by that?

I do appreciate that you are trying to stay aligned to Labour’s six bullet points, but they don’t make sense. By definition, there can be only one Single Market and you can be either in or out of it. If you are in it - whether you are politically brave enough to admit it or prefer to pretend otherwise by calling it ‘alignment’ instead – you have to accept the regulation that underpins it, but if you’ve left the EU, you get no say in those rules. And if you are subject to those regulations, you have to accept the mechanism by which they are enforced – i.e. the ECJ. And there is no opinion there, it has to be how Single Markets work, because if you a country allows unfettered access to its markets, it has to have measures in place that protect those markets from the competitive advantage that a lesser regulated country might have.

The EU also insists upon acceptance of the four freedoms to allow access to the Single Market. To make an exception for the UK would have countries in and out of the EU clamouring for the same.

I’m aware that Labour has been talking to the EU. I’m also aware that they have been completely silent upon what has been said to them. In recent weeks, I have listened to interviews with Starmer and the dreadful Rebecca Long-Bailey in which both were expressly asked whether anyone within the EU had told them that they could have a Single Market relationship without freedom of movement. Both dodged the question. Even when it was pointed out to Long-Bailey that she hadn’t answered the question, she just repeated the answer to a question that she hadn’t been asked. Now they are politicians and so it is necessary to listen to what they don’t say just as much as what they do say. If anyone at the EU had even hinted at the possibility of a SM arrangement with no FOM, they would have been shouting it from the rooftops.

So in summary, I admire the ambition of your dreaming, but your dreams are fantasy and a bit pointless.

I’ve not tried to sell the May deal to anyone. I’ve pointed out more than once that what we think as individuals is irrelevant.

As for a May Deal v No Deal Brexit referendum, I’m unsure how you think that would come about. It would need a Parliamentary majority to enact the necessary legislation. You can be sure that the many remainers in Parliament would seek to block it at every turn. In addition, there would be no incentive for No Dealers to support the legislation – they might lose such a referendum, whereas they know that they will get a no deal if they can block any other solution until 29th March. In other words, you could well get the same Rees-Mogg-Corbyn alliance seeking to block it as is blocking the May deal.

[KerrAvon]

Lol. Nice back pass to the keeper. The keeper could have picked it up back in the 70s when Heaths government ruined the economy forcing Wilson to go cap in hand to the IMF for a loan later that decade.

Save that my point is based on fact whereas yours is very dodgy speculation. It was Callaghan not Wilson who had to go cap in hand to the IMF in 1976 and, in the 12 years preceding that event, there had been 8 years of Labour government and 4 of Conservative.

I think you have just hit the ball on the turn and blasted it into the top corner of your own net. And that’s an own goal no matter what the decade.

[KerrAvon]

"The party has also been moving behind a further referendum as per the extensive debate and fudging at their conference"

Ah, you don't like democracy at work do you Kerr, just an autocratic party like your own, extensive debate is exactly that,it's a shame you and yourparty can't do the same, we'd be in a much better place right now, pathetic Kerr, pathetic.

I really like democracy, MMM. That’s why I think the referendum result has to be honoured, even though I have always believed that it will come at an economic cost. It’s always why I think it is dodgy for Labour MPs to move towards support for a further referendum less than 18 months later. I should think that many of the people who returned to Labour from UKIP last year are going to be feeling more than a little betrayed.

Funnily enough, you seemed to think the same less than two months ago when you took Adventus to task for suggesting that Labour were moving towards a further referendum. Funny that:

http://boards.footymad.net/showthrea...4#post39044904

[WanChaiMiller]

Wanchai. Just out of interest do you live and work in Hong Kong ?

No I dont live in HK. The city is outrageously expensive. We work in China and HK. Tend to use it as a hub or visit weekends when working out there.

[gm_gm]

I can’t believe some one here listen to the politicians who know feck all, you all become consumed with hot air retrick from career tosses is pitiful.

The economic “j” curve is dependent on the trade balance based partially on on currency fluctuations, but another 40 or 50 financial complexity levers that probably 1 out out 6,000 politicians understand but people on here hang onto their every word.

[millmoormagic]

Any idea when he is going to stop fiddling and spring, tiger like, into action?

*Sigh.....He's not fiddling, he's not going to 'spring' into action, all he needs to do is sit and watch your party implode, watch this space tomorrow for further proof that your party is in disarray, and is damaging the country further than it ever has, while it dithers and bickers...

I once thought you were quite bright, it seems that you're as thick as pig shyte, seems to me you've swallowed every bit of bbc bull, in fact i dare bet that's the only station you ever watch....

[WanChaiMiller]

I can’t believe some one here listen to the politicians who know feck all, you all become consumed with hot air retrick from career tosses is pitiful.

The economic “j” curve is dependent on the trade balance based partially on on currency fluctuations, but another 40 or 50 financial complexity levers that probably 1 out out 6,000 politicians understand but people on here hang onto their every word.

Did you say once you were going to give master classes on economics. When are you going to start?

[millmoormagic]

I can’t believe some one here listen to the politicians who know feck all, you all become consumed with hot air retrick from career tosses is pitiful.

The economic “j” curve is dependent on the trade balance based partially on on currency fluctuations, but another 40 or 50 financial complexity levers that probably 1 out out 6,000 politicians understand but people on here hang onto their every word.

Given your *rhetoric about economics and politicians, your avatar being your favourite, can you please explain this;

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...on-the-economy

[millmoormagic]

I really like democracy, MMM. That’s why I think the referendum result has to be honoured, even though I have always believed that it will come at an economic cost. It’s always why I think it is dodgy for Labour MPs to move towards support for a further referendum less than 18 months later. I should think that many of the people who returned to Labour from UKIP last year are going to be feeling more than a little betrayed.

Funnily enough, you seemed to think the same less than two months ago when you took Adventus to task for suggesting that Labour were moving towards a further referendum. Funny that:

http://boards.footymad.net/showthrea...4#post39044904

Once again, you're posting bull, the labour party policy hasn't changed from that point to this, i know that you like to split things and mention "labour mps say this and think that", that is totally besides the point, the labour party policy is still exactly what it always has been......democratically decided by conference, go figure...