Hayden Green estate

[jackal2]

Says it all. Total respect. We were put in an excellent position by his generosity and all those that owned the club since our last dance with death has done nothing apart from work against the very future Haydn knew was there.

About 93% of the Supporters' Trust membership were conned into handing ownership over to Munto/Russell King for nothing on the promise of big money and great glory. All the problems since then trace back to that moment.

[cher1]

Sort of agree. I'd say our problems go back to just before then, to those who caused that scenario ie those who spent money we didn't have which led to them needing the club to be sold because of debt.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

Below are the words of Haydn Green in a Q & A session for the publication 'A New Beginning - Notts County Football Club', published by Blenheim 1862 Ltd trading as Notts County Football Club in August 2004.

Why did you purchase the lease on the ground?

"For two reasons. Firstly, the lease cost the Club nothing whatsoever, but the Club was able to sell it to me, thereby raising the funds to pay off its debts and thus emerge from administration. Secondly, I saw it as a means of enabling the club to start again with very low overheads."

Should the prevailing mood for the future be one of optimism or pessimism?

"Neither. It should be one of realism. On the positive side we are a debt-free Club which has the resources to become self-financing. Moreover, we are competing against clubs which do not have banqueting and conference facilities. Some do not even have a bar.

In the bottom two divisions, it is probably true to say that less than ten clubs possess anything like the income generating facilities we will have. This should give us a head start.

On the other side of the coin, there is no prospect of anyone putting further funds into the Club aside from those commitments which have already been made. Nor will we "mortgage our future" and spend money which we have not yet earned. The answer lies in making better use of what we already have, and above all, living within our means."

Are there any final comments you would wish to make?

"Just two. Firstly, at some stage we will need to draw a line under what has happened in our recent past, and then move on. However, what must never be forgotten is the fact that we had no safeguards in place to counteract the financial recklessness which almost destroyed us. The Club needs a structure which ensures that appropriate checks and balances are in place to limit the capacity of anyone to inflict damage. I think we have made some progress towards this but speaking personally I would like to see both the Supporters Trust and the Supporters club play a bigger role in or future.



Secondly, the advantage in starting all over again is that we can fashion this Club in any way we wish. Effectively we start with a blank piece of paper and we do not need to adopt the blueprint of other clubs. For example, there is much to be said for linking a proportion of the players' wages to the size of the gate at individual matches (as is common in Rugby League). Such a system would bring football into line with other 'entertainers'.

What we all know is that the way football is presently run doesn't work effectively. We must be prepared to entertain radical change."

All wise words by Mr Haydn Green and 100% spot on. Those words are the equivalent of a constitution for the club and should have been respected and listened to so that it was protected.

Never before in the history of this club has so much been given by so few to be repaid with by so little in terms of the Haydn Green Estate.

It is this that angers and infuriates me that since that time we have twice ended up almost ceasing to exist when a man (who I’ve never seen a photo of) saved the club.

All we can do as supporters is give thanks, our appreciation and our utmost respect to the Haydn Green Estate. This for me just does not seem enough.

I fully endorse and support whatever the Haydn Green Estate chose to do as I fully and firmly believe that they have the clubs best interests at heart.

[jackal2]

All wise words by Mr Haydn Green and 100% spot on. Those words are the equivalent of a constitution for the club and should have been respected and listened to so that it was protected.

Never before in the history of this club has so much been given by so few to be repaid with by so little in terms of the Haydn Green Estate.

It is this that angers and infuriates me that since that time we have twice ended up almost ceasing to exist when a man (who I’ve never seen a photo of) saved the club.

All we can do as supporters is give thanks, our appreciation and our utmost respect to the Haydn Green Estate. This for me just does not seem enough.

I fully endorse and support whatever the Haydn Green Estate chose to do as I fully and firmly believe that they have the clubs best interests at heart.

Ask people at a moment like this and most would agree with Haydn Green's sage words, as they did back at that time. We'd seen grown men crying in the stands at the end of a game against Luton, thinking it would be our last, and when the club was rescued, everybody was saying this must never happen again.

The problem is, move on little more than a year and factor in a run of defeats for the new team built on a sustainable budget, and the football fan mentality is to forget everything they've learned. Preach sustainability then and you get accused of not caring and just being willing to watch the club die. But of course, a financially solvent club will never die. It might have to settle for playing at a lower level than fans desire, at least for some of the time, but as long as the business is breaking even then it can always exist, and playing fortunes can change over time.

If we somehow get out of this current, terrible situation, I pray that most of our fans will have learned this lesson, third time around, even if we're one of the few clubs that do.

[Old_pie]

Below are the words of Haydn Green in a Q & A session for the publication 'A New Beginning - Notts County Football Club', published by Blenheim 1862 Ltd trading as Notts County Football Club in August 2004.

Why did you purchase the lease on the ground?

"For two reasons. Firstly, the lease cost the Club nothing whatsoever, but the Club was able to sell it to me, thereby raising the funds to pay off its debts and thus emerge from administration. Secondly, I saw it as a means of enabling the club to start again with very low overheads."

Should the prevailing mood for the future be one of optimism or pessimism?

"Neither. It should be one of realism. On the positive side we are a debt-free Club which has the resources to become self-financing. Moreover, we are competing against clubs which do not have banqueting and conference facilities. Some do not even have a bar.

In the bottom two divisions, it is probably true to say that less than ten clubs possess anything like the income generating facilities we will have. This should give us a head start.

On the other side of the coin, there is no prospect of anyone putting further funds into the Club aside from those commitments which have already been made. Nor will we "mortgage our future" and spend money which we have not yet earned. The answer lies in making better use of what we already have, and above all, living within our means."

Are there any final comments you would wish to make?

"Just two. Firstly, at some stage we will need to draw a line under what has happened in our recent past, and then move on. However, what must never be forgotten is the fact that we had no safeguards in place to counteract the financial recklessness which almost destroyed us. The Club needs a structure which ensures that appropriate checks and balances are in place to limit the capacity of anyone to inflict damage. I think we have made some progress towards this but speaking personally I would like to see both the Supporters Trust and the Supporters club play a bigger role in or future.

Secondly, the advantage in starting all over again is that we can fashion this Club in any way we wish. Effectively we start with a blank piece of paper and we do not need to adopt the blueprint of other clubs. For example, there is much to be said for linking a proportion of the players' wages to the size of the gate at individual matches (as is common in Rugby League). Such a system would bring football into line with other 'entertainers'.

What we all know is that the way football is presently run doesn't work effectively. We must be prepared to entertain radical change."

What it would be like to have a businessman of that calibre in charge.

[jackal2]

What it would be like to have a businessman of that calibre in charge.

To be absolutely frank, before long he would probably get slated and accused of "lacking ambition" and "killing the club", or words to that effect. It was probably because Haydn Green was so wise (and unassuming) that he didn't crave a prominent role. In fact, he actively avoided it.

Let's pray that the next owners (if they exist) do think like Haydn Green, and let's hope Notts County fans en masse learn from our experiences and understand the bigger picture that this is the correct way to run a football club, regardless of how much or how little success it delivers on the pitch at any single snapshot in time.

[cher1]

To be absolutely frank, before long he would probably get slated and accused of "lacking ambition" and "killing the club", or words to that effect. It was probably because Haydn Green was so wise (and unassuming) that he didn't crave a prominent role. In fact, he actively avoided it.

Let's pray that the next owners (if they exist) do think like Haydn Green, and let's hope Notts County fans en masse learn from our experiences and understand the bigger picture that this is the correct way to run a football club, regardless of how much or how little success it delivers on the pitch at any single snapshot in time.

Wise words jackal, very wise words.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

Ask people at a moment like this and most would agree with Haydn Green's sage words, as they did back at that time. We'd seen grown men crying in the stands at the end of a game against Luton, thinking it would be our last, and when the club was rescued, everybody was saying this must never happen again.

The problem is, move on little more than a year and factor in a run of defeats for the new team built on a sustainable budget, and the football fan mentality is to forget everything they've learned. Preach sustainability then and you get accused of not caring and just being willing to watch the club die. But of course, a financially solvent club will never die. It might have to settle for playing at a lower level than fans desire, at least for some of the time, but as long as the business is breaking even then it can always exist, and playing fortunes can change over time.

If we somehow get out of this current, terrible situation, I pray that most of our fans will have learned this lesson, third time around, even if we're one of the few clubs that do.

If we don’t learn this time (if there is to be a third time lucky) and we somehow escape this then I would like to think supporters have learned. Although as you allude to things can be very easily forgotten.

The boom and bust method since 2009 has brought us to our lowest ever ebb in terms of league standing and the clubs biggest crisis in living memory and this comes from people on here and the likes of Colin Slater who have been associated with the club for 60+ years. So if this doesn’t make people take stock nothing will.

Being run sustainably can’t be any worse than where we’ve ended up. Even under the trust they had no money but we managed to scrape by bouncing along the bottom end of League Two.

It’s not the fans though that the buck stops with, fans may lobby and put the pressure on the custodians to “invest” which may cause a impact. However ultimately it is the decisions the custodian (and without repeating the post I made earlier in the week regarding the chronic wastage of money) makes that has the greatest impact and sets the course of the club. It’s all well and good at the start having the appetite and hunger to go all out trying to get to the promised land of the championship in a burst of vigour and enthusiasm where money appears to be no object. But then to have the bust that follows because said ambitions have not been forthcoming and there is no desire left, or in the current case no money left all becomes very painful for everyone, especially those who rely on the club paying their wages to put food on the table and pay their mortgages/rent.

No longer can the club be a rich mans toy to gamble with. It’s historical, sentimental and the value of the Haydn Geeen Estate legacy is worth more than that. The loyal staff that work at the club, the business linked to the club by association, and the supporters all deserve much much better.

[Old_pie]

To be absolutely frank, before long he would probably get slated and accused of "lacking ambition" and "killing the club", or words to that effect. It was probably because Haydn Green was so wise (and unassuming) that he didn't crave a prominent role. In fact, he actively avoided it.

Let's pray that the next owners (if they exist) do think like Haydn Green, and let's hope Notts County fans en masse learn from our experiences and understand the bigger picture that this is the correct way to run a football club, regardless of how much or how little success it delivers on the pitch at any single snapshot in time.

Sorry but I don't recognise this clamour for instant success. Post-Munto yes we struck it lucky but it was the Chairman who was bigging us up with "Championship in 5yr" ambitions and marquee signings.

The sentiments I've generally read in the past 5yrs or so have generally been a lot more measured than the messages emanating from our two over-ambitious owners. Almost from the beginning folk were querying AH's "next England manager" statements and the like.

As supporters we don't have the ins and outs of how much money the club is spending and how much money these clever businessmen have but we have all been astounded at the amounts paid to agents when those figures have been released, and most of us have been critical at the lack of youth development, the impatient sacking of managers and some of the obviously stupid appointments and signings made.

If any of the owner who came in really did what they all say "cut our cloth to suit" would have received support.

Please don't apportion any blame on the supporters for the reckless incompetence we've seen over the past few years, Munto excepted.

[them0uf]

Ask people at a moment like this and most would agree with Haydn Green's sage words, as they did back at that time. We'd seen grown men crying in the stands at the end of a game against Luton, thinking it would be our last, and when the club was rescued, everybody was saying this must never happen again.

The problem is, move on little more than a year and factor in a run of defeats for the new team built on a sustainable budget, and the football fan mentality is to forget everything they've learned. Preach sustainability then and you get accused of not caring and just being willing to watch the club die. But of course, a financially solvent club will never die. It might have to settle for playing at a lower level than fans desire, at least for some of the time, but as long as the business is breaking even then it can always exist, and playing fortunes can change over time.

If we somehow get out of this current, terrible situation, I pray that most of our fans will have learned this lesson, third time around, even if we're one of the few clubs that do.

Absolutely agree. I didn't start supporting Notts to win the European Cup, I just fancied going along to watch football but I was lucky to coincide with Jimmy and Jack and the rest is history, but it wasn't expectation. The Haydn Green and the Green family have been outstanding for Notts and without them we would not be here. The willful negligence shown by JAH was unbelievable. Someone mentioned the Trust vote earlier - it smacked to me of packing the membership with those sympathetic to a leadership initially opposed to the whole idea, not unlike Corbyn and his anti-semitic scum packing the Labour Party membership