O/T Democracy

[ragingpup]

Corbyn has lost the plot and thinks he still has the backing of the Labour faithful.

Don't think it's just the extremist No Dealers he's alienated. All my ex-Labour Remain extremist in laws are all defecting to the Lib Dems as Corbyn ain't been solid enough on supporting Remain.

Funny thing Brexit. Ha ****ing ha.

[flourbasher]

I think we may have all found some common ground and we all agree that Corbyn is useless.
Anyone disagree?? No, 100% agreement on this one

[ragingpup]

The only reason we probably feel that such change in economic outlook looks like fantasy is because we have become far too accustomed to trickle down policies over the last 40 years which clearly haven't worked .

I'm pretty convinced by the debate that investing in people drives the economy upwards , give folk a few quid and they spend it , spending creates tax revenues for the government and spending has a positive impact everywhere in the chain .

The distribution of wealth must change Raging or the situation this country finds itself in right now will just get even worse .

I don't speak for myself because my views on the EU are well documented but I have to say a fair percentage of the electorate voted leave because of austerity and didn't have a voice .

I can't access your link Raging unless i sign up to the FT website but just out of curiosity does the figures factor in the extra burden on the NHS , school places and increases in rent on properties across the UK , more demand then the price goes up obviously especially with an open door EU migration policy .

If people from abroad want to work and live here then fine but apply for a work permit and we will be in touch with a decision .

Sorry you can’t access the FT report. Not sure how I can as I’m not a member!

This article gives a more thorough discussion of the Migration Advisory Committee report which hopefully you can access. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...f-immigration/

The summary is that there is a “very small” impact on wages at the lower end of the wage scale.

On NHS pressure, Full fact give a rounded discussion: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-immig...-pressure-nhs/
Summary is that again immigration adds a small burden but last 15 years migrants from the the EU have been particularly productive in working and paying into the economy to help fund these services.

On housing, Full fact again discuss this:
https://fullfact.org/immigration/hav...%20or%201.7%25.
Some evidence here of migrants adding to house value but this only refers to one government report, on which the government themselves were very wary of drawing conclusions.

I’m happy to go with leaving with a deal that minimises economic risk. I’m happy with reasonable immigration controls. It would be good to refuse work to work seekers with criminal records for example (although we may be able to do this already, just lack the will?) But I think that immigration overall, from an economic pov, balances positives with negatives relatively evenly. From a cultural pov though, it is easy to see how unplanned settling of immigrant groups, with no thought through integration into their towns is a concern that should be addressed.

So I personally wouldn’t want to take the economic risk of No Deal let alone the lack of a clear mandate for that outcome. But let’s not go there again. I hear you that there are potential gains to be made if Labour take power without the EU but the above evidence indicates that that their perceived ‘shackles’ are somewhat illusory in my opinion. But respect others that feel differently. We should just get the best deal we can and I hope Johnson achieves that by mid October, even if amended WA. Be great to get it sorted in a way that speaks for the non-extremist majority in the country. But 5 years of Tory rule on the back of a No Deal, with asset stripping and standards stripping for me is a pig of a risk!

But completely agree with you on us re-directing wealth and investing in UK worker skills to improve our productivity. And I also completely agree that the Leave vote was largely caused by the impact of austerity. I guess the key difference is that I think that we are responsible within the UK for what we have created, and that the EU neither caused the issues, or helped to solve them.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

So Parliament has been suspended.

This means MPs can return to their home turf and do some work for those that voted for them.

Oh look it's a flying pig

[BigLadonOS]

So Parliament has been suspended.

This means MPs can return to their home turf and do some work for those that voted for them.

Oh look it's a flying pig

The thing with all the uproar about proroguing Parliament was just a sham and a side show from the Labour party who were saying that they wanted to sit during conference time and not have conferences while all the time continuing to sell tickets for the conference! Typical of this Labour party saying one thing while all the time doing another. ****ers.

[great_fire]

Now Corbyn says there will be a leave option on the next referendum, McDonnell and Nugee say otherwise.

Labour are still all over the place, how can you vote for them when you don't know what you're getting?

[great_fire]

The thing with all the uproar about proroguing Parliament was just a sham and a side show from the Labour party who were saying that they wanted to sit during conference time and not have conferences while all the time continuing to sell tickets for the conference! Typical of this Labour party saying one thing while all the time doing another. ****ers.

The uproar was a sham as they still managed to put the handcuffs on Boris but the proroguing itself was a mistake as it just galvanised the opposition.

[BigLadonOS]

The uproar was a sham as they still managed to put the handcuffs on Boris but the proroguing itself was a mistake as it just galvanised the opposition.

I still think it was a master stroke by Boris because while ever the other parties are getting together to foil him they are kicking themselves in aras for when a GE is called.

[flourbasher]

Now Corbyn says there will be a leave option on the next referendum, McDonnell and Nugee say otherwise.
?

Mcdonell said there won't be a leave option without a deal.

[KerrAvon]

No deal is not unlawful animal because those clever labour and other scumbags have failed to put in the bill that the existing depart date of oct 31 has to be amended! Oh dear how silly of them. ****ers.

The UK Parliament can't unlaterally amend the departure date. The EU has a say.

No Deal is not and never has been unlawful. It is and will remain the default position. Johnson is required to ask for an extension and that is all. The terms in which he does that are for him alone to determine. I would imagine that he will say that he is required to ask for an extension by a Parliament that has been unwilling to accept the deal on offer or no deal and that it is unclear what the requested extension is supposed to achieve other than prolonging the uncertainty for all parties. That's what I would do - tell it as it is and leave the rest to Macron.

Still hot here, but decent sailing.