BOJO. The end.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I don't believe a word of it BT, my guess is you helped Louise with her bags out the door, then nipped back in. But if it is so, where now ? The SDP looks the obvious choice, can't see anything else on the horizon.

See 249.

[sinkov]

See 249.

Aaah, the SEP, Trotskyite splitters, we're in Life of Brian territory, good for you mate, this should be fun.

[alfinyalcabo]

If Bojo gets this deal through he will go down in the history books forever as "The man who saved Britain" .Go Bojo go

[sinkov]

On a serious note BT was it the Louise Ellman resignation that prompted you to leave?
Shame mate that as sincerely I really did admire your fight for the cause so to speak.
You never know it may change one day, though the way politics is in general at the minute it could take many years.

Could I ask the same question as army BT, it seems more than coincidence that you've followed her out of the door. I don't know Louise Ellman, but I've known of her since Mrs S used to have meetings with her when she was on the LCC Education Committee a long time ago, I've followed her career with interest ever since, she must have been a Labour Party member as long as you, and coming from over your way I'm sure you must know her.

I have to agree with army as well, it's a shame that you've felt it necessary to leave, we can often be miles apart on politics, but I recognise a good, decent Labour man when I see one, and it's an ominously sad day for the Labour Movement when people like you and Louise Ellman feel it's time to walk away.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Could I ask the same question as army BT, it seems more than coincidence that you've followed her out of the door. I don't know Louise Ellman, but I've known of her since Mrs S used to have meetings with her when she was on the LCC Education Committee a long time ago, I've followed her career with interest ever since, she must have been a Labour Party member as long as you, and coming from over your way I'm sure you must know her.

I have to agree with army as well, it's a shame that you've felt it necessary to leave, we can often be miles apart on politics, but I recognise a good, decent Labour man when I see one, and it's an ominously sad day for the Labour Movement when people like you and Louise Ellman feel it's time to walk away.

I know Louise personally and it saddens me enormously that a longstanding and valued Labour MP and a good old fashioned activist like me no longer feel the Labour Party represents their core beliefs.

Believe me, we are not on our own.

[outwoodclaret]

I witness division, acrimony, rancour, and misogyny at just about every level of the Labour Party. Momentum is the equivalent for me of inviting cancer to invade your body.

The Trade Unions in my own opinion no longer represent the British working class, yet continue to exert enormous influence in a political party that was ostensibly instigated by and for the British proletariat.

When women and particularly Jewish women, feel unsafe to be in the same political party as me, I can no longer feel comfortable and be a part of it.

Don't worry about me though Army88, the struggle for equality will continue. I have joined the Socialist Equality Party and feel at home already!

Well BT I know it must have been a wrench for you to leave the Labour Party but you can’t say your colleagues on this board didn’t try to warn you what was happening. The influence of Momentum over all matters and I can see local loyal activists being passed over in the selection progress as Parliamentary Labour candidates in favour of Corbyn acolytes. The lack of any rapport between Labour at council level and the electorate. Radcliffe West is neither the start nor the end. Hope happier days lie ahead for you in the SEP.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

I am just a short 524 bus ride away from Bolton BT. Always ready to meet up for a chat over a pint or glass of wine.

Will take you up on that outwood.

[outwoodclaret]

Will take you up on that outwood.

Look forward to it. I’ll PM you when the Brexit vote result is out. Just hope it is not a tie because that will give Remainer Bercow the casting vote.

[Balanbam00]

BT: I would say you have been holding on to a philosophy ,not understanding the the real nature of the world. Equality can never be! No two atoms are the same. No shame , Marx also did not fully understand the human psychic,otherwise his social-economic theory would have lasted even today.An example of a social economic society can be found in the Israeli Kibutz, a society that has mostly failed, in it's social-economic experiment.

What would it mean to create a society with income equality? This is a burning political and social question today as we look at our world where fewer and fewer people hold a larger and larger part of the economic pie. But it’s also something that we can look to Jewish history to try to understand

KIbbutzim, communities in Israel that were based for many years on full income equality, in the distribution of incomes among members, and on collective ownership of property, were, as you said, indeed always a small percentage of the Israeli society.We can note, that kibbutzim are more interesting social experiments in voluntary socialism and equal sharing, and they teach us about the conditions under which voluntary socialism and income inequality or income equality can succeed and when it will fail, and so on.

But today the failure of the kibbutzim cannot be ascribed to lack of ideological fervour, inadequate resources, or hostility from the surrounding "capitalist" society. Despite these advantages, kibbutzim failed to achieve a high level of economic productivity, and even failed to retain the loyalty of many of their own members. Over time, many kibbutz residents became frustrated with the perverse incentives created by socialism, and many also yearned for the individual freedom and privacy created by private property rights.

As someone wrote '' I became even more fascinated and liked the kibbutz even more because this idea of a society that shares everything equally and treats everybody the same and where weak members are getting an equal share of the total pie seemed like a virtuous and right way to construct society.

[sinkov]

"Equality can never be!"

I believe our society should strive for equality, the same equality espoused by the glorious Margaret Thatcher, equality of opportunity, what each individual does with that opportunity is up to them.