O/T:- Votes, scores and first past the post predictions 12.12.2019

[sevens_a_secret]

The planet is dying, species going extinct, rain forests destroyed, the earth torn and raped, rivers and lakes polluted, the oceans used as a trash can and you say voting green is a waste.

Well it is, unless you live in Brighton, perhaps. Extinction Rebellion and the anti-fracking activists etc have done more and are likely to do more than a lame vote for the Green Party.

[sidders]

Can someone remind me why you need to have a government again?

All I can see is so called grown-ups falling over themselves to hand their political agency to someone else to wield for them. In most cases to people clearly not to be trusted, but you'll do it anyway.

Isn't it time you all grew up and stopped asking for Mummy and Daddy to do it for you and instead got up of your knees and took control of your own lives?

It's pathetic really. You deserve the crap coming to you...

Umm, who is the 'you' whom you are addressing here and how come you yourself are not included?

[the_anticlough]

I am vehemently against any form of proportional representation.

That means you're strongly behind disproportional representation.
Not a position that can be taken very seriously

[sevens_a_secret]

Umm, who is the 'you' whom you are addressing here and how come you yourself are not included?

Well, this turkey won't be voting for Christmas. I advocate an Anarchist Communist revolution instead.

Ya Basta!

[forwardmagpie]

That means you're strongly behind disproportional representation.
Not a position that can be taken very seriously

I prefer the first past the post system as it makes it less likely to have a hung parliament / coalition government which I am not keen on.

I understand it is probably not the best system but in my opinion usually gives a better outcome.

The last referendum we had on our voting system in 2011 rejected the LibDems Single Transferable Vote where 68% voted (with a low turnout) not to change from the current system.
Although not Proportional Representation it was a step in that direction that didn’t appear to interest the electorate.

However it wasn’t referred to as “a once in a generation referendum” so maybe we could have another vote.

[the_anticlough]

I prefer the first past the post system as it makes it less likely to have a hung parliament / coalition government which I am not keen on.

I understand it is probably not the best system but in my opinion usually gives a better outcome.

In the UK, we've seen that even 36% of the vote on about 66% turnout can win a party absolute power for half a decade or much longer. That's 23% of the population having it all their way.

If that 23% was delivering policies and outcomes you hated, the absolute opposite of what you believe, would you still be saying 'well it's better than a hung parliament' or parties having to work with each other? No, I think you'd quickly become a supporter of proportional representation.

[forwardmagpie]

In the UK, we've seen that even 36% of the vote on about 66% turnout can win a party absolute power for half a decade or much longer. That's 23% of the population having it all their way.

If that 23% was delivering policies and outcomes you hated, the absolute opposite of what you believe, would you still be saying 'well it's better than a hung parliament' or parties having to work with each other? No, I think you'd quickly become a supporter of proportional representation.

No I wouldn’t, I didn’t support Mr Blair (not sure what %s he got) for more than a decade but I just got on with it as I think it’s the best option so please don’t presume I think like you.

[the_anticlough]

No I wouldn’t, I didn’t support Mr Blair (not sure what %s he got) for more than a decade but I just got on with it as I think it’s the best option so please don’t presume I think like you.

I wasn't thinking of Blair. The last Euros with the tories on 8%, raised the possibility of a Corbyn Govt with a large working majority even on low to mid 30s %. It's good to know you would 'just get on' with that FPTP scenario too.
At the moment, there's more possibility of a large Johnson majority on a really low share of popular vote.
I don't think there's anyway you can deny that FPTP is anti-democratic, whatever your political persuasion.

[forwardmagpie]

I wasn't thinking of Blair. The last Euros with the tories on 8%, raised the possibility of a Corbyn Govt with a large working majority even on low to mid 30s %. It's good to know you would 'just get on' with that FPTP scenario too.
At the moment, there's more possibility of a large Johnson majority on a really low share of popular vote.
I don't think there's anyway you can deny that FPTP is anti-democratic, whatever your political persuasion.

Why did you not think of Mr Blair and Mr Brown when you raised this point?

FPTP for me is a better system and I have explained why - if Mr Corbyn wins on FPTP then so be it. If he does well then he will win the next election if he doesn’t he won’t.

You seem to have ignored the Single Transferable Vote referendum- why?

[the_anticlough]

Why did you not think of Mr Blair and Mr Brown when you raised this point?

FPTP for me is a better system and I have explained why - if Mr Corbyn wins on FPTP then so be it. If he does well then he will win the next election if he doesn’t he won’t.

You seem to have ignored the Single Transferable Vote referendum- why?

FPTP has always imposed Govts that a large majority of the population do not want.
It forces our politics into a dysfunctional 2-party system which just doesn't serve a complex, modern society with so many competing ideologies and outlooks.

The referendum was on Alternative Vote (AV) not STV. Let's not sugarcoat it, the tories ate the Lib dems alive in Govt. Most people can't even remember that referendum, it got so little attention. Clegg was so brow-beaten, he even seemed apologetic for having it so lame was the campaign.

Anyway, the point I'm making is FPTP is essentially an anti-democratic system. Anyone supporting it backs political representation (and actual power) being disproportional to actual votes. I just don't think that's defensible