O/T:- Who needs Parliament?

[bridpie78]

I'm calling BS on both of these. On what grounds exactly would 'the government' demand an opposition MPs phone records? They can't.

The police can if they think an offence has been committed. A judge can. I think parliament or a parliamentary committee can, although I'm not sure what happens to you if you don't give them apart from contempt of parliament.

As for parliament making laws, well yes, parliament is sovereign and can make whichever laws it pleases. I can't imagine the intelligence agencies getting involved because parliament might make a law. That's what parliament does.

Why would MPs need help from another country to draft another extension bill when they've already drafted one earlier this year? Especially from the French who are one of the countries who want us to leave.

This all smacks of Dominic Cummings trying to wrestle back control of the news cycle by pushing his 'surrender' spin.

It does seem like retaliation for the earlier attempt by the opposition to demand phone records and communications from Boris and his cohorts, in some ways it doesn't matter if it is true as long as the story is out there it sows more seeds of suspicion on the remain camp and improves Boris's popularity with leavers.... as you said spin being used
The reason i suppose for the intelligence and police gettng involved(if they are) is that it could probably be classed as treason which is a criminal offence, i would imagine there are protocols for drafting bills/laws to prevent this kind of interference by a foreign power(s) and if they haven't been followed this could be very serious for those accused.
this is getting messier by the day

[drillerpie]

It does seem like retaliation for the earlier attempt by the opposition to demand phone records and communications from Boris and his cohorts, in some ways it doesn't matter if it is true as long as the story is out there it sows more seeds of suspicion on the remain camp and improves Boris's popularity with leavers.... as you said spin being used
The reason i suppose for the intelligence and police gettng involved(if they are) is that it could probably be classed as treason which is a criminal offence, i would imagine there are protocols for drafting bills/laws to prevent this kind of interference by a foreign power(s) and if they haven't been followed this could be very serious for those accused.
this is getting messier by the day

Well of course they would but again, why would remain MPs take money from France to do something they want to do anyway? Why would France pay for something they don't even want? Why would they need help drafting a relatively short and simple law when they have already drafted the exact same law a few months ago? How can the government (meaning the executive ie Johnson and Cummings) demand people's phone records?

It seems to me a clear cynical ploy designed to make Brexiters angry as hell when they pick up their Mail on Sunday tomorrow. And it will work like a dream.

[bridpie78]

Well of course they would but again, why would remain MPs take money from France to do something they want to do anyway? Why would France pay for something they don't even want? Why would they need help drafting a relatively short and simple law when they have already drafted the exact same law a few months ago? How can the government (meaning the executive ie Johnson and Cummings) demand people's phone records?

It seems to me a clear cynical ploy designed to make Brexiters angry as hell when they pick up their Mail on Sunday tomorrow. And it will work like a dream.

I didnt know there was anything financial about the accusations, i think the point of the accusation is to insinuate collusion between remainers and the EU to find a way around Boris intention to go out without a deal, as you say it will work perfectly tomorrow morning and will overshadow a lot of the flak directed at Boris the last week or so

surely the asking for phone records is exactly the same as when the remainers demanded those from government ministers and advisers(did that ever happen btw?), i would imagine that they would be requested(not demanded) to assist with the investigation and withholding them would be seen as being obstructive and potentially dishonest and if the investigation found them to have done anything criminal then the police would get them anyway.
either way a bit of spin and its lose lose for those accused, unless of course they have nothing to hide in which case it would backfire spectacularly

[drillerpie]

I didnt know there was anything financial about the accusations, i think the point of the accusation is to insiuate collusion between remainers and the EU to find a way around Boris intention to go out without a deal, as you say it will work perfectly tomorrow morning and will overshadow a lot of the flak directed at Boris the last week or so

surely the asking for phone records is exactly the same as when the remainers demanded those from government ministers and advisers, i would imagine that they would be requested(not demanded) to assist with the investigation and withholding them would be seen as being obstructive and potentially dishonest and if the investigation found them to have done anything criminal then the police would get them anyway.
either way a bit of spin and its lose lose for those accused, unless of course they have nothing to hide in which case it would backfire spectacularly

Gump's post said something about sources of funding.

Come on Brid, if you think treason has been committed you go to the authorities. You don't let Johnson and Cummings conduct their own investigation like Laurel and Hardy. Plus seriously which opposition politician in their right mind would hand over their phone records to Johnson? That sounds like something that would happen in Stalinist Russia (minus the opposition of course).

[bridpie78]

Gump's post said something about sources of funding.

Come on Brid, if you think treason has been committed you go to the authorities. You don't let Johnson and Cummings conduct their own investigation like Laurel and Hardy. Plus seriously which opposition politician in their right mind would hand over their phone records to Johnson? That sounds like something that would happen in Stalinist Russia (minus the opposition of course).

I dont think anyone will be handing over or investigating anything, as you said its a bit of spin to deflect attention back onto an EU remain conspiracy story and as a tactic you can't really knock it because it does exactly what is supposed to do, im getting a bit fed up of both sides at the minute

It could get even more complicated if this confidence vote happens next week, boris wont be able to investigate anything if he is ousted with a no confience vote, thats going to be a close call i think it will come down to the independents choosing sides

[drillerpie]

I dont think anyone will be handing over or investigating anything, as you said its a bit of spin to deflect attention back onto an EU remain conspiracy story and as a tactic you can't really knock it because it does exactly what is supposed to do, im getting a bit fed up of both sides at the minute

It could get even more complicated if this confidence vote happens next week, boris wont be able to investigate anything if he is ousted with a no confience vote, thats going to be a close call i think it will come down to the independents choosing sides

I'd say the independents will happily vote against Johnson but probably won't install Corbyn.

[bridpie78]

I'd say the independents will happily vote against Johnson but probably won't install Corbyn.

Thats what i mean, im assuming Boris will get his extra 10 that the taxpayer bought for May and you would imagine that LibDems have to abstain or face ridicule of clegg proportions, that leaves the votes of the independants either going against boris or abstaining,the rest will probably vote for him to go.

could be an interesting week, i was going to buy a new laptop but i might wait in case theres an opportunity to go looting

[countygump]

Thats what i mean, im assuming Boris will get his extra 10 that the taxpayer bought for May and you would imagine that LibDems have to abstain or face ridicule of clegg proportions, that leaves the votes of the independants either going against boris or abstaining,the rest will probably vote for him to go.

could be an interesting week, i was going to buy a new laptop but i might wait in case theres an opportunity to go looting

Bullchit??? Why, just cos the massively remain biased tv channels haven't yet reported it
Hopefully, Swinson will be next, cos she's been colluding with the EU in not giving Boris a deal.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/statu...575233/photo/1

[countygump]

I'd say the independents will happily vote against Johnson but probably won't install Corbyn.

I don't actually think it's that easy. Unless Boris chooses to resign, a vonc is a non starter. Seems the Labour Party is already wising up to that as they are now racking back on the idea. The rules are very interesting actually, seems the biggest party always get first dibs at forming a Gov and they get 14 days to do this and then face a vote of confidence. If they don't face a vote of confidence after 14 days, we go straight to an election, which must be called, within 25 days. 25+14 =39??? Didn't Boris call for a vonc, the other day, before the end of that days business in the House??? I wonder why? Read this, it takes some trawling thru but is very interesting.



https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/...m-a-route-map/

[i961pie]

Bullchit??? Why, just cos the massively remain biased tv channels haven't yet reported it
Hopefully, Swinson will be next, cos she's been colluding with the EU in not giving Boris a deal.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/statu...575233/photo/1

I haven't seen any coverage of the case against the Leave vote breaking the law (Aaron Banks) being fake. There was plenty of it when he was accused, funny that.