O/T Brexit

[BigFatPie]

Given the likelihood that we will end up with broadly the same "No Deal" situation at the end of the negotiations that we would have had if we had put a "take it or leave it" hard Brexit plan on the table on day one, the only beneficiaries of this process are the extra layer of EU bureaucrats and British Civil Servants brought in to "negotiate" on the premise that a genuinely mutually acceptable agreement was ever possible.

For all the talking and political posturing, the same red lines and barriers that made a deal unlikely at the start are still making a deal unlikely now, but thanks to our weak and gutless political leaderships we've spent two years procrastinating and chasing rainbows. The EU can't bend to Britain's preferred terms because it would effectively spell the end of their little club, and the Conservative Government can't bend to the EU's wishes if they want to retain their coalition with the Unionists and avoid losing at least half their support base for a generation.

By now we should have been at least a year into the No Deal scenario which will probably happen anyway, but now May is talking about extending the impasse yet further. Sir Humphrey Appleby would have loved it.

I’ve read an unhealthy amount about Brexit over the last two years and that is truly a unique interpretation. Are you sniffing Diesel?

[TheBlackHorse]

... spot on jackal2

[ncfcog]

I might be wrong but the one year extension surely only relates to an extension of the implementation period should a 'Deal' be achieved. I'm sure Article 50 states that if there is a 'No deal' scenario the UK still has to be out for March 2019?

Like I said, i could be wrong, can anyone clarify this?

[BigFatPie]

Arguing about the £350m in the current situation is like debating the interior decor on the Titanic after the iceberg has hit.

[ncfcog]

If you speak to many business owners, like myself it isn't the vote to leave that has caused them most concern but the ineptitude of those charged with seeing it through.

My own business has suffered terribly since the referendum but only because my clients and prospects are waiting for it to be resolved one way or another before they feel comfortable parting with large sums of money for new machinery etc.

One way or another I personally want to see a resolution asap. At this stage whether it is a watered down deal or no deal actually has no real bearing on matters as it will give businesses a baseline to start making positive decisions about investing in areas of their businesses they have up until now been avoiding.

I buy and sell equipment and services to and from all four corners of the world. The free trade agreement we have enjoyed in the EU is great but only really in the fact that I have less paperwork to do. My dealings with companies in Australasia and the Americas is much more lucrative and to be honest worth the extra admin.

I voted leave thinking it would force the UK to forge aggressive trade deals with other countries outside the EU. Unfortunately those charged with fulfilling this objective on behalf of UK trade and commerce have failed miserably and done nothing but waste time trying to appease a few suits in Brussels.

[drillerpie]

If you speak to many business owners, like myself it isn't the vote to leave that has caused them most concern but the ineptitude of those charged with seeing it through.

My own business has suffered terribly since the referendum but only because my clients and prospects are waiting for it to be resolved one way or another before they feel comfortable parting with large sums of money for new machinery etc.

One way or another I personally want to see a resolution asap. At this stage whether it is a watered down deal or no deal actually has no real bearing on matters as it will give businesses a baseline to start making positive decisions about investing in areas of their businesses they have up until now been avoiding.

I buy and sell equipment and services to and from all four corners of the world. The free trade agreement we have enjoyed in the EU is great but only really in the fact that I have less paperwork to do. My dealings with companies in Australasia and the Americas is much more lucrative and to be honest worth the extra admin.

I voted leave thinking it would force the UK to forge aggressive trade deals with other countries outside the EU. Unfortunately those charged with fulfilling this objective on behalf of UK trade and commerce have failed miserably and done nothing but waste time trying to appease a few suits in Brussels.

Ncfcog I remember you were very bullish after the vote because the falling pound made your exports cheaper. I'm sorry to hear your business is suffering because you're one of the more measured posters on here.

Maybe with your business acumen you can answer a question about trade deals I've asked a few times on here and never really had a reply.

If the EU negotiators have the bargaining power of access to 28 EU markets when discussing trade deals, how can we get a better deal with, for example, countries in the Americas and Australasia when we can only grant access to one market in return?

If I rang your company and ordered a machine but said I wanted a better price than you gave the guy who just ordered 28 machines, wouldn't you think I was stupid?

To put it another way, if a US state declared independence from the USA what bargaining power would it realistically have to get a better trade deal than the whole USA which can grant access to a much bigger market?

And the follow up question is: are our negotiators incompetent or have they just been given a near impossible job?

[ncfcog]

Ncfcog I remember you were very bullish after the vote because the falling pound made your exports cheaper. I'm sorry to hear your business is suffering because you're one of the more measured posters on here.

Maybe with your business acumen you can answer a question about trade deals I've asked a few times on here and never really had a reply.

If the EU negotiators have the bargaining power of access to 28 EU markets when discussing trade deals, how can we get a better deal with, for example, countries in the Americas and Australasia when we can only grant access to one market in return?

If I rang your company and ordered a machine but said I wanted a better price than you gave the guy who just ordered 28 machines, wouldn't you think I was stupid?

To put it another way, if a US state declared independence from the USA what bargaining power would it realistically have to get a better trade deal than the whole USA which can grant access to a much bigger market?

And the follow up question is: are our negotiators incompetent or have they just been given a near impossible job?

Driller, yes you are correct, I was and if it wasn't for my export business there is every chance we would not be trading today.

Regarding your analogy of the 28 states it all depends I suppose on the value the single state trying to negotiate the deals has in comparison to the others. I think it's fair to say that just about every economy in the world would and does covet the opportunity to sell goods into the UK, probably more so than say , Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Slovenia etc etc. who are all, with the greatest respect, small fry in comparison.We should never underestimate the economic strength within the UK or indeed undersell what we have to offer the rest of the world.

As an example, in an attempt to try and turn around our fortunes we have designed a new product which is quite unique in our field. We have already received advanced orders within the UK and one of the largest manufacturing companies in our industry, based in Scandinavia is wanted to discuss being able to manufacture this product for us and look to sell on a global platform.

Now I'm not saying for one minute that this will be a resounding success and I have just found a winning Lotto ticket, we have a long way to go yet and there will be many bumps in the road, however it is just an indication of what businesses and of course the people in this country can offer industry the world over. I'm not sure you could necessarily get that from some of the other member states listed above?

[drillerpie]

Driller, yes you are correct, I was and if it wasn't for my export business there is every chance we would not be trading today.

Regarding your analogy of the 28 states it all depends I suppose on the value the single state trying to negotiate the deals has in comparison to the others. I think it's fair to say that just about every economy in the world would and does covet the opportunity to sell goods into the UK, probably more so than say , Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Slovenia etc etc. who are all, with the greatest respect, small fry in comparison.We should never underestimate the economic strength within the UK or indeed undersell what we have to offer the rest of the world.

As an example, in an attempt to try and turn around our fortunes we have designed a new product which is quite unique in our field. We have already received advanced orders within the UK and one of the largest manufacturing companies in our industry, based in Scandinavia is wanted to discuss being able to manufacture this product for us and look to sell on a global platform.

Now I'm not saying for one minute that this will be a resounding success and I have just found a winning Lotto ticket, we have a long way to go yet and there will be many bumps in the road, however it is just an indication of what businesses and of course the people in this country can offer industry the world over. I'm not sure you could necessarily get that from some of the other member states listed above?

Ok well I applaud your new innovation and I wish you the best of luck with it.

As I'm sure you're aware, the EU is made up of more than the economically insignificant countries you have just cited, so if we simplify the argument and say that instead of 28 the EU negotiators can use access to 4 lucrative, developed markets (UK, GER, FRA, ITA) with a combined population of over 200 million people in which to sell their products, and from which to import innovative hi tech products, as a bargaining chip to extract concessions from third countries.

The question is the same, how are our negotiators going to get better trade deals (or even the same deal, but let's say better because otherwise what's the point of doing it?) from a third country, when in return they can only offer access to fewer consumers in fewer markets?

[ncfcog]

Ok well I applaud your new innovation and I wish you the best of luck with it.

As I'm sure you're aware, the EU is made up of more than the economically insignificant countries you have just cited, so if we simplify the argument and say that instead of 28 the EU negotiators can use access to 4 lucrative, developed markets (UK, GER, FRA, ITA) with a combined population of over 200 million people in which to sell their products, and from which to import innovative hi tech products, as a bargaining chip to extract concessions from third countries.

The question is the same, how are our negotiators going to get better trade deals (or even the same deal, but let's say better because otherwise what's the point of doing it?) from a third country, when in return they can only offer access to fewer consumers in fewer markets?

Thanks Driller.

I suppose it's more a question of consolidation, less dilution?

[drillerpie]

Thanks Driller.

I suppose it's more a question of consolidation, less dilution?

In what way?