O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[ragingpup]

First of all rp I didn't post it as a response to your post
I would have "replied with quote" if it was a response
I just posted it as I thought you may find it interesting is all

Oh, fair enough, I thought you did reply with quote. Thought you were picking up on a point I'd made with the article as reply. My bad.

[KerrAvon]

1. So, do you think that historically, the Labour Party have had the same problem with Eurosceptics as the Conservatives that ultimately led Cameron to try and solve the problem once and for all by putting the referendum into the 2015 manifesto?

2. When Labour was in power under Blair and Brown, was there similar anything like the internal warfare that forced Cameron to make the referendum a 'thing'?

3. If Corbyn had agreed to meet May 2 weeks ago, how might have this led to him having "more of an input" than he has today?

Whilst your about it, tell me more about why you think the 6 tests are "self contradictory"?

I explained why the six tests are self-contradictory many weeks and many posts ago. It was at about the same time that I was having to explain to you what a withdrawal agreement was and how it differed from the political statement and transition period.

[animallittle3]

Summed up in a nutshell by the superb Mr Crace .


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...little-me-time

[ragingpup]

I explained why the six tests are self-contradictory many weeks and many posts ago. It was at about the same time that I was having to explain to you what a withdrawal agreement was and how it differed from the political statement and transition period.

Ok, I may have been drunk. I tend to be very so in the monrings when I read your posts.

please try and run it by me again - exactly how are Labour contradicting themselves with the 6 tests?

Quite a lot of questions that you seem to be struggling with tonight. Chop cop.

[frogmiller]

The option were 3 moderates at the time, and the feeling amongst many supporters was that a) moderates kept losing heavily in general elections and b) the public were mightily peed off with moderates and the centre ground. If you keep losing elections with moderate candidates, why make the same mistake again? Don't you think Labour performed better in the 2017 election with a much stronger and popular manifesto?

The numbers say so because Labour closed the gap on the tories but by heck were they there for the taking. The memories of the aging tory vote is brain washed against the very thing that Momentum and Corbyn are.

[ragingpup]

The numbers say so because Labour closed the gap on the tories but by heck were they there for the taking. The memories of the aging tory vote is brain washed against the very thing that Momentum and Corbyn are.

Not sure about them being there for the taking. Didn't feel like that at the time, it felt to me like Labour were so far behind, so much so that May was confident enough to call an election to increase her majority, with absolutely everyone thinking, right up to election night, it was going to be a walk over.

How did that indicate that they were there for the taking?

[KerrAvon]

Ok, I may have been drunk. I tend to be very so in the monrings when I read your posts.

please try and run it by me again - exactly how are Labour contradicting themselves with the 6 tests?

Quite a lot of questions that you seem to be struggling with tonight. Chop cop.

Lol. Your abilty to ask questions is legendary. My willingness to answer meaningless ones isn't.

I’m reminded of an old Russian political joke:

Stalin, Khrushchev and Brezhnev were travelling across Siberia when their train broke down.

Stain said: ‘This is outrageous, we should shoot the train crew to encourage better performance in the future’.

Khrushchev replied: ‘No, we must treat the train crew with kindness to ensure that their performance improved’.

Brezhnev then spoke: ‘Neither of those will work. We need to close the curtains on the carriage and get the train crew to rock it from side to side so that we can pretend we are still travelling’.

I see that your ability to debate with me has reached the Brezhnev stage. Don’t worry about it. You aren’t the first.

I’m not going to repeat myself. Look it up.

[animallittle3]

The numbers say so because Labour closed the gap on the tories but by heck were they there for the taking. The memories of the aging tory vote is brain washed against the very thing that Momentum and Corbyn are.

The gap closed because Corbyn managed to grab the youthful vote .

That looks unlikely to be repeated given his reluctance to throw his weight behind a second referendum .

[KerrAvon]

Not sure about them being there for the taking. Didn't feel like that at the time, it felt to me like Labour were so far behind, so much so that May was confident enough to call an election to increase her majority, with absolutely everyone thinking, right up to election night, it was going to be a walk over.

How did that indicate that they were there for the taking?

You have to ask the question when the country was in its seventh years of austerity? Labour were behind in the polls because of Corbyn and May called the election because of that and out of a desire to increase her majority so as to head off the very problems she faces now. The Tories then ran an absurd and inflexible campaign and didn't challenge Labour on policy, which allowed them to close the gap. With a better leader and less extreme policies, they might well have won.

In any event the argument is irrelevant given that Labour lost. As I mentioned earlier, many Tories will share your apparent happiness at that.

It didn't feel like a walk over until election night. I share an office with someone who was standing for the Tories (he wasn't going to win) and we had several conversations about how they were throwing the election away from about two weeks into the campaign

[KerrAvon]

The gap closed because Corbyn managed to grab the youthful vote .

That looks unlikely to be repeated given his reluctance to throw his weight behind a second referendum .

Post election research suggests that the notion of Labour grabbing the youth vote is not actually accurate.