D Day for Brexit

[sinkov]

May saved by 5 Labour rebels Field 43% leave constituency, Hoey 18%, Mann 68%, Stringer 50% and Hopkins 58% on the Customs Union vote. Get ready for local deselection moves.

How were they rebels ? The Labour Party fought the last election on a manifesto pledge of accepting and honouring the vote to leave. The amendment on the customs union was specifically designed to ensure we couldn't leave the EU. So whoever was rebelling, it wasn't the five who voted in accordance with the Party's manifesto.

[oldcolner]

How were they rebels ? The Labour Party fought the last election on a manifesto pledge of accepting and honouring the vote to leave. The amendment on the customs union was specifically designed to ensure we couldn't leave the EU. So whoever was rebelling, it wasn't the five who voted in accordance with the Party's manifesto.

But the party changed their mind Sinkov
- who cares about election pledges.

[1959_60]

"I want a clean break ? I voted to leave the EU, I've already stated what I, and imo the vast majority of leave voters, think that entails."

By the way Sinkov, I should have made it clear that when i said "others want trade deals" I meant deals with the EU. And that is the nub of the matter. There are a myriad of different arrangements for future trade with the EU. Some involve staying in the single market/customs union, inventing new customs unions, trading with the EU on world Trade Organisation rules etc etc.

You have your own idea, other people have their ideas. To say that "I voted to leave the EU, I've already stated what I, and imo the vast majority of leave voters, think that entails." I'm sorry Sinkov, but I don't buy that. What evidence do you have that the vast majority agree with your version of Brexit? I have yet to hear two people say exactly the same thing about their version - except those that want the complete break option....which not many people support.

Time to hand the final decision to the people or we will go round and round and disappear up our own arseholes.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

How's about someone adheres to a democratic vote and stops shilly-shallying about?

A majority of the United Kingdom's electorate voted to LEAVE the EU. I don't care who holds their up, we can't reach an agreement with the EU so HARD Brexit it is.

No trade deal, no maintenance fees, no farewell golden egg, just sever it and crack on. It might sound simplistic but it's the only way to do it.

We have been up to our necks in the brown stuff before, we will survive!

[The Bedlington Terrier]

But Sinkov, if you think that the EU strategy will result in a hard Brexit, surely you should be applauding them?

After all, that is the outcome that you want?

After much thought and deliberation I honestly believe it is better to have a hard Brexit that works than to have to play around in the middle ground that has to be constantly renegotiated and cannot ever work. Let's sever it and dismiss this bloody awful uncertainty which is really damaging our nation's business interests.

Leave the safe harbour and put the wind in our sails and live the adventure (courtesy of Mark Twain I think?)

[Supersub6]

What I am waiting for is the final severance and to see the divided reception that this well bring.
Will the majority who voted to leave say that this is exactly what they wanted --I think not.
Will the majority of those who lost the vote and wished to remain be happy with the deal or no deal scenario ----I think not.
Will the majority of those who could not be bothered to vote either way be happy ----I think not.

I could ask further questions but just suffice to say that, whatever happens in the long run, there will still be as many happy people as there are unhappy.
The only plus, if it is a plus, is the fact that, once the severance is made, it will be down to the people of the UK to ensure that the country progresses without any input from the EU.
I just wish that I had confidence that we had leaders of any persuasion to pick up the reins, however, I don't think that we have but we shall see.

[oldcolner]

Interesting that had Theresa lost by one vote yesterday we could be facing a General Election. 1 out of 650 would be a 49.85% vs 50.15%
MPs can be elected by 1 vote in 50000.
It’s time remoaners just accepted how democracy works. Unhappy people have to learn that too.

[1959_60]

Afternoon OC.

The only true "Pure" Brexit is to sever all ties with the EU and go it alone. I don't think that this would receive much support with the public or Parliament. I don't think that 52% of the population voted for this option.

So then we are back to negotiating some kind of agreement with the EU. And there are many, many possible options for this - but there is obviously no consensus over an agreement that will garner the support of a majority.

Theresa is giving it her best shot...but her proposal is far short of getting the support of the majority of the country.

What would you do? Go for the complete break from the EU or try to cobble a deal together like Theresa is trying to do?

If this is left to politicians only then the country will be in a state of civil war for years to come.

Giving the people the choice is the only democratic way out of this mess.

[Supersub6]

The people have had their choice and it was for Brexit, why do they need a choice for the terms of Brexit?
We have representatives who are elected to run the country and since Brexit was voted for we have had another election which was inconclusive and did more harm than good. Now we are talking about giving another choice to people who have already voted in the referendum and the General Election and who may well have changed their mind between the two. Why another choice?

Are we not in a big enough mess as it is?

[oldcolner]

59
The only true "Pure" Brexit is to sever all ties with the EU.

That’s almost what I voted for - to sever all control from the EU, all payments to them. We need to cooperate and work with them on defence and trade with them so that’s not severing all ties. The more I see and hear drunker Junker, brusque Tusk and smarmier Barnier the more I want out.
We need to trade more with the rest of the world as the EU fades into an also ran.

I hear no vision from remoaners of where we will be in 5 years if they got their way, that’s because the EU has suppressed national thinking as they want a superstate. Is your vision we just do what they tell us and have to pay more for it.