Reply With QuotePlain antisemitism here.Originally Posted by OchPie
The Jews contributed to their persecution because they stuck to their faith?
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If only the latter were true. A few moments on Israeli twitter would swiftly disabuse you of that notion.
Christopher Hitchens observed that the Jews rejected the message of both Jesus and Mohammed, of Church and of Mosque. That undoubtedly contributed.
That said, if it had been Buddhists who took land from the Palestinians to establish a state, and then spent decades keeping the Palestinians in a state of occupation, does anyone really think there wouldn't be a hatred of Buddhists?
The lack of peace, and Israeli occupation, undoubtedly drives hatred and conflation of "Israeli" and "Jewish" (not helped as Israel's current government moves towards abandoning the secular nature of the state).
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Plain antisemitism here.
The Jews contributed to their persecution because they stuck to their faith?
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I thought that might one of the reasons. Judaism does not believe Christ to be the son of God, they believe he is a false prophet as there is only one God. Hence you can't have one in heaven and his son on earth. But Islam doesn't recognise him as the son of God either, though they do recognise him as a disciple of God, born of a miracle, (the virgin birth). But as you say, there are half a dozen other religions who do not recognise Jesus. I wondered if the crucifixion itself played a role in this age old "dislike" of the Jews. Though Pilate, (a Roman prefect), was responsible for his actual death, it was the high priest of Jerusalem, (Joseph Caiaphas, a Jew) who gave him up, as he prob saw Jesus as an agitator causing unrest.
Last edited by countygump; 30-10-2023 at 10:20 AM.
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I don't know where you got that impression but it certainly wasn't from anything I wrote. At no point did I say they "contributed to" anything. I explained why some other groups might have hated them simply for who they were.
What answer would you prefer to "why do so many different Countries, religions, hate the Jews so much? What did they ever do to anyone?"? My answer was clear that they didn't do anything to anyone, other than exist.
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Certainly the belief that Jews killed Jesus, and a underlying belief that all Jews forever were guilty of this(!), drove a lot of antisemitism in Christianity for centuries, from the earliest days of the church. Thankfully most Christians no longer hold such beliefs.
There's an entire wikipedia article about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide
Last edited by OchPie; 30-10-2023 at 12:25 PM.
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A 3,000 year potted history....
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Yes you did.
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... as many have already said, the failure to look back at history leads to the stupid decisions made in current politics.
How do we expect to progress if we allow ancient religions to dictate matters; and why are we surprised when they do?
I came across this: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...s-the-refugees
FACT
Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian
would have become a refugee. An independent Arab state would now exist
beside Israel. The responsibility for the refugee problem rests with the
Arabs. The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks
immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution.
The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the
upcoming war and fled to neighbouring Arab countries to await its end.
Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab
towns to stay with relatives or friends. By the end of January1948, the
exodus was so alarming the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked
neighbouring Arab countries to refuse visas to these refugees and to seal
their borders against them.
On January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha'ab, reported: "The
first of our fifth-column consists of those who abandon their houses and
businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble
they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."
Another Jaffa paper, Sari (March 30, 1948) excoriated Arab villagers
near Tel Aviv for "bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning the villages.”
Meanwhile, a leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer
el-Khatib, said Arab soldiers in Jaffa were mistreating the residents.
"They robbed individuals and homes"
The biggest laugh, recently, (if it wasn't so serious), was the Saudi's blocking Palestinian refugees in case it altered their way of life.
Shalom
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I am not as erudite as Hitchens but that was not even my own point. It was a significant shortening and paraphrasing of a longer passage in Hitch-22, which itself in no way blamed Jews for anti-semitism, as my words did not. The rejections - which were passive, not active; perceived, rather than pronounced - contributed to anti-semitism because of the irrational and hateful reactions of Christians and Muslims to them.
Since you seem to be arguing in bad faith, I'll leave you to it.
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JVL is a terrible source for anything related to the conflict. Not even Israeli historians believe their line on this any more.
The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited by Benny Morris is an excellent book, even if I find very little to agree with the man about politically. JVL inevitably hate it. But it's not a Pappe-style polemic.
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