Focus on the things that matter

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Having now seen as much of the game as MOTD and the Sky highlights allow, I'd suggest that they can do more to improve their performances by getting out on the training ground and (given the falling off a cliff of the physical side of their performances), some work to shed a few pounds and get the rest in better shape than was apparent on Sunday.

You EARN days off, and there is no way on Gods earth that the places they occupied weren't booked well in advance of the Palace game, and if you or I performed like they did (and the rest), taking a few days off would be frowned upon. It wasn't just a "bad 45 minutes", it was by common consensus, the worst performance by a Leeds 1st team for decades, not a precursor to jetting off to "relax and recuperate" (they did plenty of that in the second half of the Palace game).

Paid a kings ransom to kick a pigs baller round a football pitch, the least they could have shown was a bit of humility after that disasterous performance, but preferred not to.

BTW, the 90 minutes against Forest were not brilliant, they were adequate, against one of the worst performing teams in the league. Poor defending gave Forest their goal, we were fortunate their gk had slippy hands for our first, the only really good piece of play was the Sinistera goal, with plenty of chances going begging (as usual)

Sounds like you think the players don’t work hard or are not trying. They do both and the margins in top flight football are small between success and failure - sometimes it might be mental. If the coach thinks giving them a few days off is the way to go to get over it then so be it.

We are starting to again come up against the limitations of some of the players from the championship squad.

Ayling has too much variability between being good and poor and seems to lose concentration easily. Bamford just isn’t reliable enough. Yes good headed from a set piece but showed little threat outside of that.

At this time of the season you want players who can pull it out when it matters and if resetting their mood works then let them go party.

[WTF11]

Sounds like you think the players don’t work hard or are not trying. They do both and the margins in top flight football are small between success and failure - sometimes it might be mental. If the coach thinks giving them a few days off is the way to go to get over it then so be it.

We are starting to again come up against the limitations of some of the players from the championship squad.

Ayling has too much variability between being good and poor and seems to lose concentration easily. Bamford just isn’t reliable enough. Yes good headed from a set piece but showed little threat outside of that.

At this time of the season you want players who can pull it out when it matters and if resetting their mood works then let them go party.

Not sure why you are referring to Ayling or Bamford, I wasn't, and I have acknowledged in other threads that both are not up to PL standard, and might never be after their efforts in previous seasons.

The article related to Firpo and Sinisterra, one the most consistently criticised 1st team player who somehow retains his place, the other a record club signing (as an attacker) who in 15 appearances for the club has scored three times (once and most recently against a poor Forest side). Both could do with earning their place, and jetting off to Monte Carlo smacks more of "I don't give a ****" than a clear and unambiguous commitment to improve on the field.

"At this time of the season you want players who can pull it out when it matters and if resetting their mood works then let them go party." We don't have any players who can "pull it out when it matters" (apart perhaps from Gnonto), that was shown in the second half against Palace, so I suppose the players might as well enjoy the social side of what remains of their PL careers.

[spaldy]

We missed Wober badly and we miss Adams. With them we still lose because we have have a striker that does not score but once every 10 games or so.

without them we can't hid Ayling and Firpo. Wober can pick up the slack for Firpo and we are alway going to give up the left back spot as long as we play Ayling. It's like giving the other team a motorway to our box.

Dont see much reason to "train". If you think that Bampuff's suddenly going to start scoring and Ayling and Firpo are going to start defending the wingbacks they are paired up against then you have a lot more faith in the training process 30 games into the season than I do.

It's also testimony at just how good Gracia has done in his short time. He was able to instill some discipline and tactics in a remarkably short time frame with some players that aren't prem quality.

If rodrigo and wober are not available then we need sit bamford and hope one of our mid's can put one in and try to hold the lead. I'd play perkins before I'd put out our "striker". He's probably about due for an injury anyway.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

We missed Wober badly and we miss Adams. With them we still lose because we have have a striker that does not score but once every 10 games or so.

without them we can't hid Ayling and Firpo. Wober can pick up the slack for Firpo and we are alway going to give up the left back spot as long as we play Ayling. It's like giving the other team a motorway to our box.

Dont see much reason to "train". If you think that Bampuff's suddenly going to start scoring and Ayling and Firpo are going to start defending the wingbacks they are paired up against then you have a lot more faith in the training process 30 games into the season than I do.

It's also testimony at just how good Gracia has done in his short time. He was able to instill some discipline and tactics in a remarkably short time frame with some players that aren't prem quality.

If rodrigo and wober are not available then we need sit bamford and hope one of our mid's can put one in and try to hold the lead. I'd play perkins before I'd put out our "striker". He's probably about due for an injury anyway.

Agreed - the players need to understand the difference between trying and fight and also showing leadership. At times in the second half it looked as though no one on the pitch knew what to say.

Onwards and fingers crossed upwards

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Not sure why you are referring to Ayling or Bamford, I wasn't, and I have acknowledged in other threads that both are not up to PL standard, and might never be after their efforts in previous seasons.

The article related to Firpo and Sinisterra, one the most consistently criticised 1st team player who somehow retains his place, the other a record club signing (as an attacker) who in 15 appearances for the club has scored three times (once and most recently against a poor Forest side). Both could do with earning their place, and jetting off to Monte Carlo smacks more of "I don't give a ****" than a clear and unambiguous commitment to improve on the field.

"At this time of the season you want players who can pull it out when it matters and if resetting their mood works then let them go party." We don't have any players who can "pull it out when it matters" (apart perhaps from Gnonto), that was shown in the second half against Palace, so I suppose the players might as well enjoy the social side of what remains of their PL careers.

Think Sinisterra is excellent and just needs to fully recover match fitness.

Bambi is a fragile enigma but surely the club has spent long enough trying to wrk it out.

Firpo has been decent recently and the second half was a whole team failure not just one or two players.

Sure Gracia will have a plan for Monday. We could do the double over the Scousers which I am sure we haven’t achieved for many a year.

[WTF11]

Think Sinisterra is excellent and just needs to fully recover match fitness.

Bambi is a fragile enigma but surely the club has spent long enough trying to wrk it out.

Firpo has been decent recently and the second half was a whole team failure not just one or two players.

Sure Gracia will have a plan for Monday. We could do the double over the Scousers which I am sure we haven’t achieved for many a year.

As I mentioned in post #12, the thread was started prompted by the article on Sinisterra and Firpo. However as you stick with the Bamford sub-theme, here are the current stats for both Bamford the fragile enigma and the "excellent" Sinisterra;

https://www.infogol.net/en/player/patrick-bamford/536

https://www.infogol.net/en/player/lu...%200%20assists.

Same number of appearances, same number of goals, same Infogol rating, but Bamford has played twice as many game minutes, although minutes per match are close, and Bamfords EG score is double that of Sinisterra. Most of the other stats are comparable, so it begs the question, just who should the club be trying to "work it out" for?

Btw, on the Firpo issue, I'd agree has has improved, but most definitely NOT as a left back. He has done some good work in left/central midfield, but he will never be an effective PL Left Back as long as he has a hole in his ar5e.

[spaldy]

wish I had a fiver for every sitter that bampuff's missed over the past 5 years. The statistics are BS. countless times they don't even count as shots on goals or saves because he misses so badly or loses the ball.

the entire team often misses lot of good chances but generally he's the only one sent out there to be a striker. When your striker does not score generally a whole team has trouble scoring.

It's also telling how often I run into other team's supporters that say if we had an OK striker we'd have a chance at the top goal scorer. They then usually go on to reference what someone like a Mitrovic or even a Wood would do on our team.

Finally, he doesn't even get double teamed any more. it's usually the slowest center back on him and he doesn't make them pay.

He was fine in the championship. The good year in the prem was largely because he had so many chances that even he put them in. However, a pure striker scores twice as many goals that year.

appears to be a quality fellow but I think an effective striker that plays 80% of the games we are mid table for both last year and this year.

in the end it's a business and it's nothing personal but he's not effective enough for the prem and we've held a spot on the team that we could have moved on to someone better.

[Ozwhites]

Probably the last time I'll express my view on him, because I've lost count...but Bamf is NOT a "quality striker". He is a good club and team player who has worked hard...but he does miss way too many "sitters". Not prodigious enough in conversion rate to be ranked anywhere near it I'm afraid.

[WTF11]

Probably the last time I'll express my view on him, because I've lost count...but Bamf is NOT a "quality striker". He is a good club and team player who has worked hard...but he does miss way too many "sitters". Not prodigious enough in conversion rate to be ranked anywhere near it I'm afraid.

Strange isn't it, that the subject of the thread gets "turned" (heard that before somewhen!)?

So to Bamford. Our only out and out striker to have scored consistently during the period before and immediately after our promotion to the PL. One of the (VERY) few positives from the unfortunate tenure of our beloved DoF. Now, when his scoring capabilities are diminished (something I wouldn't disagree is true), and replacements are very thin on the ground (Rodrigo? Sinisterra?), is there even the faintest whiff of criticism of the club for failing to provide a "succession"? Nah, not really, just a constant dribble of such criticisms aimed at the player.

Harry Truman had a sign made that repeated something he saw at a reformatory, "The buck stops here". Unfortunately that sentiment is sadly lacking at any level or in any individual who occupies a position in our executive. Like any player Bamford has/had a shelf life, and the club knew that, and did f00k all about replenishment. They are the ones your criticism should be aimed at, not the player who helped (significantly) to get us in to the PL and survive the early season of our return.

[Ozwhites]

Strange isn't it, that the subject of the thread gets "turned" (heard that before somewhen!)?

So to Bamford. Our only out and out striker to have scored consistently during the period before and immediately after our promotion to the PL. One of the (VERY) few positives from the unfortunate tenure of our beloved DoF. Now, when his scoring capabilities are diminished (something I wouldn't disagree is true), and replacements are very thin on the ground (Rodrigo? Sinisterra?), is there even the faintest whiff of criticism of the club for failing to provide a "succession"? Nah, not really, just a constant dribble of such criticisms aimed at the player.

Harry Truman had a sign made that repeated something he saw at a reformatory, "The buck stops here". Unfortunately that sentiment is sadly lacking at any level or in any individual who occupies a position in our executive. Like any player Bamford has/had a shelf life, and the club knew that, and did f00k all about replenishment. They are the ones your criticism should be aimed at, not the player who helped (significantly) to get us in to the PL and survive the early season of our return.

Never ever intimated that it was "his fault" that he was the only real option the club provided in the position for long periods. But...I'll reiterate, with the basic chances he missed so regularly, he wasn't even a class striker in the Championship! Fair striker with great work rate.....