O/T:- Palestine / Israel

[Magpies1959]

Newish Pie, it is ok to say that only Hamas supporters are celebrating the atrocities in Israel. BFP, a simple question, do you think it is ok for Hamas supporters to be celebrating their actions in Israel, on the streets of our capital. If not, then your earlier post is just purely political provocation.

[Jampie]

This is nothing like the Russia/Ukraine conflict. In that war Russia invaded a sovereign democracy and should pack up and leave immediately, just like they should have at any point in the last 19 months.

This crap with Israel and Hamas is just different. Hamas's terrorist atrocities absolutely merit a military response. On the other hand Israel is loudly announcing war crimes (cutting off the only water supply water to a civilian population is a war crime by any definition). I think it's perfectly sane to condemn the actions of both sides on this one.

I can't even get interested in a debate as to who is more evil. The information space is absolutely packed to the gills with propaganda and useful idiots for both sides (and other factions completely disinterested in the common good).

You could say though that Hamas's strategy is the dumber of the two, I suppose.

[drillerpie]

All gone a bit quiet in Ukraine. Another flare up starts somewhere else to feed the arms manufacturers. Quelle surprise.

Because humans, especially those of different religions, never ever used to fight each other until Boeing and Raytheon existed. Especially over territory in the holy lands. Right?

[queenslandpie]

Because humans, especially those of different religions, never ever used to fight each other until Boeing and Raytheon existed. Especially over territory in the holy lands. Right?

Of course they used to fight each other. Just as there has been conflict and arguments for centuries over Ukraine. What has changed is using the areas as a vehicle to make profit using the arguments and conflict. If Hammas was not able to fire 7000 missiles at Israel or whatever the number is then Israel would not need its crazy Missile defence system and so on and so forth. Who is winning here? Well the arms manufacturers are, I can't see anyone else winning can you?

[drillerpie]

Hamas gets its rockets from Iran. Iran provides weapons for ideological/religious reasons, not (primarily at least) for profit.

Even if that weren't the case, I'm pretty sure this is a bigger issue than arms manufacturers engineering an escalation to keep profits up.

In response to your last question, Netanyahu seems to be winning as a couple of weeks ago he was the guy destroying the Israeli constitution and removing the independence of the judiciary, now he's a wartime statesman leading a unity government fighting terrorism.

[OchPie]

Not going to get into deep thoughts about Israel and Palestine, as that's always a black hole.

But supporting terrorism in the UK is an offence and I would not be surprised to see some of those on video going to jail for considerable stretches. And I'd be just fine with that. Cheering on the murder of innocent civilians cannot be right.

[BJPIE]

It's evidently clear different cultures, beliefs religions cannot live side by side. Whilst many would like too, the extremists make it impossible.

[slack_pie]

I dunno, I think it's easy to be too pessimistic. I suspect there's only a small number of hyper-partisans (plus bots and trolls and attention-seekers and stirrers trying to spread disinformation for fun or political ends) saying the really awful things. All this on social media platforms which were never effectively moderated or regulated to start with and even less effectively now.

I think most real people's real opinions are pretty similar and pretty nuanced. There are - of course - people with sympathies more on one side than the other, but most comments and statements I've read are calling for pretty much the same things, though with a difference of emphasis. Even those whose sympathies are more with one side than another don't typically hate/say horrendous things/glory in violence and destruction.

From what I can see on social media, people are so quick to take sides. Do you stand with Israel or Palestine? It's the same with every major issue these days - people take a side and then treat it like a sport. In reality, this conflict - like all the other serious issues the world is facing - is more nuanced and complicated than that. Taking a side is a strange thing to do when there are innocent children being needlessly slaughtered on both sides of the divide.

I can't see how this situation can be resolved. I presume Israel's plan is to destroy Hamas root and branch, which probably means turning Gaza into a wasteland. But in the process, they'll create a new generation of Palestinians (and Muslims in general) who want nothing but revenge and suffering for Israelis. And on and on it goes. That's if one of Palestine's many powerful allies doesn't weigh in and start WWIII.

There's something seriously wrong with us humans.

[Old_pie]

Hamas gets its rockets from Iran. Iran provides weapons for ideological/religious reasons, not (primarily at least) for profit.

Even if that weren't the case, I'm pretty sure this is a bigger issue than arms manufacturers engineering an escalation to keep profits up.

In response to your last question, Netanyahu seems to be winning as a couple of weeks ago he was the guy destroying the Israeli constitution and removing the independence of the judiciary, now he's a wartime statesman leading a unity government fighting terrorism.

It would not be surprising to know how much of this has Russian involvement too. It serves their purpose to have another crisis involving the West, particularly the USA. The sooner the Americans get fed up of financing European issues the better the ride they get in Ukraine.

[Old_pie]

It's evidently clear different cultures, beliefs religions cannot live side by side. Whilst many would like too, the extremists make it impossible.

Many cultures and religions exist peacefully side by side. One seems a general exception almost wherever you go in the world.