OT perspective/ Ukraine/Russia

[ramAnag]

Sorry RA, where is it jaundiced?
When has there ever been a bully free period in history?

I'm firmly in the ever prepared/ strong camp. I don't trust many regimes around the world.
We've had our fair share of situations in which we put our trust in good human nature and got singed.
The naivity of some folks, is at times laughable. However much we want/expect people to be decent and honest. It always gets thrown back in your face.
From Chamberlain and the nazi's to a sheltered "refugee", turning himself into a bomb
It happens and to not expect it, is irrespnsible.

The last line, you are correct with.

Tricky, as Ramshank says...we shouldn’t be divided over this. I fundamentally disagree with your statement about the strong and the weak and I refer you back to my comment about confusing ‘strong’ with ‘bullies’...that comment, imo, exhibited a very ‘jaundiced’ view and you’d probably consider my response naive, but let’s just agree to share our different perspectives.

[Geoff Parkstone]

I think TTR and rA are debating different versions of the word strong here - TTR means strong as in physical might, rA strong in terms of moral fibre. Hence both can be right in specific circumstances. In the case of covid, the "world community" was strong in facing down a common enemy and in may cases helping the weakest survive the economic and health hardships. But the current scenario in Ukraine is that physical might is likely to conquer moral fibre - a dead well meaning liberal is still a dead one. Longer term, repression generally loses out but for the moment I dont see an rA scenario panning out. I hope I'm wrong

Did "White Rose" ultimately overcome National Socialism - perhaps it was influential in turning German popular opinion against Hitler, but at the outset the sword was far mightier than the pen

[Trickytreesreds]

I think TTR and rA are debating different versions of the word strong here - TTR means strong as in physical might, rA strong in terms of moral fibre. Hence both can be right in specific circumstances. In the case of covid, the "world community" was strong in facing down a common enemy and in may cases helping the weakest survive the economic and health hardships. But the current scenario in Ukraine is that physical might is likely to conquer moral fibre - a dead well meaning liberal is still a dead one. Longer term, repression generally loses out but for the moment I dont see an rA scenario panning out. I hope I'm wrong

Did "White Rose" ultimately overcome National Socialism - perhaps it was influential in turning German popular opinion against Hitler, but at the outset the sword was far mightier than the pen

Well put GP.

My analogy was more about the stonger will take from the weak like that.

Imagine an apocalyptic event.
When food / resources are scarce. Does anyone really believe that the moral right thing to do, will prevail and everything is shared out nicely?

No neither can I.
If you have a weapon, you will use it to defend yourself/what you've got and if necessary take it.
My example of 1938/39 still stands. Germany was at peak strength military wise and saw fit to bully and take. Poland, then Belgium and France, easy as pie.
Moralistically, I wish the whole world thought the same, but it doesn't.
Never take your eye off the ball and think folks will be nice for ever,

[ramAnag]

I think TTR and rA are debating different versions of the word strong here - TTR means strong as in physical might, rA strong in terms of moral fibre. Hence both can be right in specific circumstances. In the case of covid, the "world community" was strong in facing down a common enemy and in may cases helping the weakest survive the economic and health hardships. But the current scenario in Ukraine is that physical might is likely to conquer moral fibre - a dead well meaning liberal is still a dead one. Longer term, repression generally loses out but for the moment I dont see an rA scenario panning out. I hope I'm wrong

Did "White Rose" ultimately overcome National Socialism - perhaps it was influential in turning German popular opinion against Hitler, but at the outset the sword was far mightier than the pen

I really don’t want to get bogged down in this, GP...but I’m not sure I’ve described a scenario. All I’ve done is questioned Tricky’s interpretation of how the strong treat the weak.
He’s then gone on to suggest that I don’t understand nature...that though is the point...we may have much to learn from nature, but ultimately what separates us from nature...the animal world...is that we do care for the older, sicker and weaker members of society in a way that ‘nature’ seldom does, and that is something we will see again as this latest refugee crisis, this time from within our own continent, continues to unfold.

[Geoff Parkstone]

OK I give up, thread contribution terminated

[ramAnag]

OK I give up, thread contribution terminated

Bit uncalled for, GP. Genuinely don’t know what provoked that strop.

Either way...perhaps we all have to hope that ultimately the pen (or dialogue at least) - albeit admittedly backed by NATO’s military strength - proves mightier than the sword, because if it comes down to a confrontation between Russian and NATO’s weaponry we’re all *ucked.

[Trickytreesreds]

Sorry, I had to pinch this, lol


UK RAISES ALERT LEVEL
The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent Russian threats and have therefore raised their security level from “Miffed” to “Peeved.” Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to “Irritated” or even “A Bit Cross.” The English have not been “A Bit Cross” since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. The Russians have been re-categorized from “Tiresome” to “A Bloody Nuisance.” The last time the British issued a “Bloody Nuisance” warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from “Pissed Off” to “Let’s Get the *******s.” They don’t have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from “Run” to “Hide.” The only two higher levels in France are “Collaborate” and “Surrender.” The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France’s white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country’s military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from “Shout Loudly and Excitedly” to “Elaborate Military Posturing.” Two more levels remain: “Ineffective Combat Operations” and “Change Sides.”

The Germans have increased their alert state from “Disdainful Arrogance” to “Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs.” They also have two higher levels: “Invade a Neighbour” and “Lose.”

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from “No worries” to “She’ll be alright, Mate.” Two more escalation levels remain: “Crikey! I think we’ll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!” and “The barbie is cancelled.” So far, no situation has ever warranted use of the final escalation level.

[Andy_Faber]

VERY poor effort from some sport governing bodies, notably the IPC allowing Russian athletes to compete at the winter paralympics. Similar ‘not reading the room’ from the FIA but U.K. Motorsport have taken the initiative by banning all Russian individuals and teams from U.K. events

[MadAmster]

VERY poor effort from some sport governing bodies, notably the IPC allowing Russian athletes to compete at the winter paralympics. Similar ‘not reading the room’ from the FIA but U.K. Motorsport have taken the initiative by banning all Russian individuals and teams from U.K. events

IPC finally react to a ruck of delegations saying they won't compete if Russian and Belarussian athletes are allowed to compete under any flag/description. Bela and Russian athletes are now OUT.

Better late than never.

[Trickytreesreds]

This is true bravery. A people taking care of loved ones, then going back to fight for their country. It makes your blood boil.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-i...-says-12556219

These are the genuine refugees I want to see helped. Not the charlatans of young men, paying thousands to cross the EU and the channel.