OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[MadAmster]

Lol...calm down Angry, you’ll do yourself a mischief.
It’s only one thread...needn’t detract from anything else and it has generated over 4500 replies.
The issue remains alive and people comment...what’s wrong with that?

It's Brexit, it's politics, that and religion are 2 of the things most guaranteed to cause dischord and get folk at each other's throats. Might that be an explanation?

[AngryRam]

Lol...calm down Angry, you’ll do yourself a mischief.
It’s only one thread...needn’t detract from anything else and it has generated over 4500 replies.
The issue remains alive and people comment...what’s wrong with that?

The issue remains alive due to people like you not accepting a democratic vote (cue the 'it's was not a majority' line). It remains alive as our elected politicians have failed to deliver what they promised in the interest of their own self preservation.
It remains alive due to lies (on both sides), corrupting the process.
It remains alive as it seems only Remainers knew what Brexit looked like and the rest of us are stupid.
It still remains alive as it seems a large part of the Leave vote have died now and it seems that every 15/16 year old who could not vote last time, will vote Remain.
It remains alive as we had a Remainer negotiating it and now we are told that is what Brexit looks like. Nope !! What else would happen when weak people who do not believe in it negotiate it. Now Remainers have destroyed democracy in the UK. They will blame the leavers but in essence the leave vote has been pretty quiet through this debacle. It is taboo in social arenas or in the work place to be a leaver. You will be scorned but the vocal minority.
It remains alive as Corbyn is a totally inept opposition leader. How does an opposition leader still remain less popular that the most unpopular PM ever? It remains alive as our political elite are inept should all step down with heads hung in shame.
Freedom of speech has now become a negative thing. A spiteful thing. Social Media has become a negative platform and now we have millions of social commentators (experts) telling us what to think and do. And it is to everyones shame that these people (influencers) are listened to. They are normally on the left of politics..
Now politics is screaming leftists, or green haired uni students throwing milkshakes. Great..
My angry days were, I thought, well behind me. 70s and 80s and mainly it was around a football match. I am pissed with this country now big time.
Still what do I know, I am a nearly 60 year old white hetro***ual male leaver. Lowest of the low, or so I am told. Our vote should be ignored as should our experiences.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Very well put there Angry

As someone who totally ignores social media myself (unless you count something like this as social media light) I heartily endorse your condemnation of the "influencer" and more so deplore the sheer stupidity of those who follow such people,implicitly believing their views since they don't have the wherewithal to form one of their own. Don't get me started on the moronic status of public opinion or you may not be the angriest person on the forum. Let's keep socialmedia simple - follow these cretins, if you must, on your choice of hair, clothes, shoes, tv or even food, but please, when it comes to things that matter, formulate your own opinion or STF up.

[AngryRam]

Very well put there Angry

As someone who totally ignores social media myself (unless you count something like this as social media light) I heartily endorse your condemnation of the "influencer" and more so deplore the sheer stupidity of those who follow such people,implicitly believing their views since they don't have the wherewithal to form one of their own. Don't get me started on the moronic status of public opinion or you may not be the angriest person on the forum. Let's keep socialmedia simple - follow these cretins, if you must, on your choice of hair, clothes, shoes, tv or even food, but please, when it comes to things that matter, formulate your own opinion or STF up.

I do tend to keep to make up influencers.. I can fake tan with the best of them now.
Anyway.. Off to Porto in the morning for the England games.. I left Little Angry in charge of logistics and somehow I am flying to Brussels really early instead of Porto. Kids.. He tells me it's cheaper.. I think he just goofed it up. Also I noticed that I fly back to LGW via Madrid, when I am leaving from LHR.
He voted to leave by the way, so that could explain a lot.. Or perhaps he didnt and that's why I am doing an inforced European tour. Can't trust the yoof.. Grrrr

[Geoff Parkstone]

You'll find out if he ballsed it up when you have to get a substitute bus from Brussels to Barcelona and then pick up another plane there: arriving in Oporto airport just as the match kicks off second half.

And of course he somehow had a direct flight.....

[ramAnag]

The issue remains alive due to people like you not accepting a democratic vote (cue the 'it's was not a majority' line). It remains alive as our elected politicians have failed to deliver what they promised in the interest of their own self preservation.
It remains alive due to lies (on both sides), corrupting the process.
It remains alive as it seems only Remainers knew what Brexit looked like and the rest of us are stupid.
It still remains alive as it seems a large part of the Leave vote have died now and it seems that every 15/16 year old who could not vote last time, will vote Remain.
It remains alive as we had a Remainer negotiating it and now we are told that is what Brexit looks like. Nope !! What else would happen when weak people who do not believe in it negotiate it. Now Remainers have destroyed democracy in the UK. They will blame the leavers but in essence the leave vote has been pretty quiet through this debacle. It is taboo in social arenas or in the work place to be a leaver. You will be scorned but the vocal minority.
It remains alive as Corbyn is a totally inept opposition leader. How does an opposition leader still remain less popular that the most unpopular PM ever? It remains alive as our political elite are inept should all step down with heads hung in shame.
Freedom of speech has now become a negative thing. A spiteful thing. Social Media has become a negative platform and now we have millions of social commentators (experts) telling us what to think and do. And it is to everyones shame that these people (influencers) are listened to. They are normally on the left of politics..
Now politics is screaming leftists, or green haired uni students throwing milkshakes. Great..
My angry days were, I thought, well behind me. 70s and 80s and mainly it was around a football match. I am pissed with this country now big time.
Still what do I know, I am a nearly 60 year old white hetro***ual male leaver. Lowest of the low, or so I am told. Our vote should be ignored as should our experiences.

Much of the above I don’t disagree with Angry and I share your opinion of (many of) our politicians who I agree have handled the whole Brexit disaster appallingly.

Having said that you purposely choose to ignore what I believe are four crucial factors.
1. The Referendum was initially called as an attempt to unite the Tory Party.
2. Everyone knows the Referendum was only advisory.
3. Democracy, as far as I understand it, involves following the will of the majority of the people.
4. Even you must recognise that a percentage somewhere in the thirties - either in the Referendum or the more recent Euro elections - does not constitute a majority and does not provide our Parliamentary Democracy with a clear mandate as regards Brexit.

As long as that is the case I will continue to argue. I didn’t start the thread, I am simply one of a number who contribute to it. You’re totally entitled to your opinion as I am to mine but it’s odd, don’t you think, that you should accuse Remainers of personal attacks and then launch one on me?

For the record I don’t think as a ‘nearly sixty year old white hetero***ual male leaver’ you are the ‘lowest of the low’...neither do I think of you as ‘stupid’. I do however believe it is up to everyone to decide which threads they wish to contribute to and that there is nothing wrong with people who have Derby County and football in common choosing to share opinions on other matters.

[AngryRam]

Much of the above I don’t disagree with Angry and I share your opinion of (many of) our politicians who I agree have handled the whole Brexit disaster appallingly.

Having said that you purposely choose to ignore what I believe are four crucial factors.
1. The Referendum was initially called as an attempt to unite the Tory Party.
2. Everyone knows the Referendum was only advisory.
3. Democracy, as far as I understand it, involves following the will of the majority of the people.
4. Even you must recognise that a percentage somewhere in the thirties - either in the Referendum or the more recent Euro elections - does not constitute a majority and does not provide our Parliamentary Democracy with a clear mandate as regards Brexit.

As long as that is the case I will continue to argue. I didn’t start the thread, I am simply one of a number who contribute to it. You’re totally entitled to your opinion as I am to mine but it’s odd, don’t you think, that you should accuse Remainers of personal attacks and then launch one on me?

For the record I don’t think as a ‘nearly sixty year old white hetero***ual male leaver’ you are the ‘lowest of the low’...neither do I think of you as ‘stupid’. I do however believe it is up to everyone to decide which threads they wish to contribute to and that there is nothing wrong with people who have Derby County and football in common choosing to share opinions on other matters.

I am all for sharing opinions and to be fair to you, you try and keep it civil.. Many others don’t though..
Brexit is not about the Tories, it’s about the people. Many Labour voters voted to leave, so it is cross party. Unfortunately politicians want to fight this on party lines.. Always going to fail..
It was a majority of people who voted.. What more can you do? Who’s to say it would not have been larger majority if everyone had voted? I read somewhere that the demographic of people who historically don’t vote, probably fit the stereotypical leaver.. Who knows?
You have a vote and it’s your choice if you use it or not.. it’s a called a free society. You can’t keep regurgitating this every 5 mins, it holds no water. I don’t always like the government of the day but accept the result, I can speak out, that’s fine but not like this. Remainers are now doing more damage to this country than leaving ever could. You are tearing it apart. Leaving will be tough but that is not a reason not to do something.. The world was built by people who did not always take the easy route.
I hope it’s the end of both the main parties.. Both have backed the referendum, so your advisory comment makes no sense.. The politicians from all sides agreed to deliver it. It ceased to become advisory at that point.
I respect that everyone does not want to leave, I listen to their rationale and some of it makes sense. However we voted to leave, ups and downs included.. It will never work if we don’t pull together, it will just continue to divide us.

[ramAnag]

I am all for sharing opinions and to be fair to you, you try and keep it civil.. Many others don’t though..
Brexit is not about the Tories, it’s about the people. Many Labour voters voted to leave, so it is cross party. Unfortunately politicians want to fight this on party lines.. Always going to fail..
It was a majority of people who voted.. What more can you do? Who’s to say it would not have been larger majority if everyone had voted? I read somewhere that the demographic of people who historically don’t vote, probably fit the stereotypical leaver.. Who knows?
You have a vote and it’s your choice if you use it or not.. it’s a called a free society. You can’t keep regurgitating this every 5 mins, it holds no water. I don’t always like the government of the day but accept the result, I can speak out, that’s fine but not like this. Remainers are now doing more damage to this country than leaving ever could. You are tearing it apart. Leaving will be tough but that is not a reason not to do something.. The world was built by people who did not always take the easy route.
I hope it’s the end of both the main parties.. Both have backed the referendum, so your advisory comment makes no sense.. The politicians from all sides agreed to deliver it. It ceased to become advisory at that point.
I respect that everyone does not want to leave, I listen to their rationale and some of it makes sense. However we voted to leave, ups and downs included.. It will never work if we don’t pull together, it will just continue to divide us.

I didn’t say ‘Brexit was about the Tories’...I said the Referendum was called, by David Cameron, to appease the Tory Eurosceptics and unite the Tory Party. That is just fact.
Cameron failed dismally and his attempt to unite his Party has led to this country being more divided than I can ever remember.

The fact that both Parties then went along with it was entirely politically motivated as even though a majority of all MP’s displayed enormous misgivings about the wisdom of Brexit they were also fearful of being labelled undemocratic. That does not in any way lessen the notion that the Referendum was advisory...that too is fact.

In the case of a General Election of course we all have to go along with a result we don’t like sometimes when the contest is between a number of ‘options’ however in the case of a Referendum - with a binary choice - how can 37% represent the ‘Will of the People’? Add to that the fact that so many people were swayed by blatant lies and I believe the Remainers have a damned good case.

I too hate the extent to which opinion in this country has become polarised and divided however I’d suggest that Farage is the most divisive individual in this country at the moment rather than anyone connected with ‘Remain’. I/We are not in the business of ‘tearing apart’...far from it and defending the ‘Remain’ stance has been anything but the ‘easy route’ on this forum.

[AngryRam]

I didn’t say ‘Brexit was about the Tories’...I said the Referendum was called, by David Cameron, to appease the Tory Eurosceptics and unite the Tory Party. That is just fact.
Cameron failed dismally and his attempt to unite his Party has led to this country being more divided than I can ever remember.

The fact that both Parties then went along with it was entirely politically motivated as even though a majority of all MP’s displayed enormous misgivings about the wisdom of Brexit they were also fearful of being labelled undemocratic. That does not in any way lessen the notion that the Referendum was advisory...that too is fact.

In the case of a General Election of course we all have to go along with a result we don’t like sometimes when the contest is between a number of ‘options’ however in the case of a Referendum - with a binary choice - how can 37% represent the ‘Will of the People’? Add to that the fact that so many people were swayed by blatant lies and I believe the Remainers have a damned good case.

I too hate the extent to which opinion in this country has become polarised and divided however I’d suggest that Farage is the most divisive individual in this country at the moment rather than anyone connected with ‘Remain’. I/We are not in the business of ‘tearing apart’...far from it and defending the ‘Remain’ stance has been anything but the ‘easy route’ on this forum.

Wrong on so many levels.. No real point in going round in circles.
Keep tearing this country apart, I hope you get some satisfaction from it. You will be able to look in the mirror and say ‘I did that’.. Bravo..

[Andy_Faber]

I respect that everyone does not want to leave, I listen to their rationale and some of it makes sense. However we voted to leave, ups and downs included.. It will never work if we don’t pull together, it will just continue to divide us.

Wise words, such a shame so many sought to frustrate momentum instead of adding to it.