OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

[Trickytreesreds]

Wow...you do get excitable and agitated when things aren’t going your way, Tricky. Almost as if you’re scratching a forty six year old itch.

Anyway...let’s look at the reality...those who voted for Brexit did so on the understanding that there would still be ‘frictionless and tariff free movement of goods’, that all UK citizens living in the EU and vice versa would continue to enjoy pre Brexit rights, that we (the UK) would fulfill our commitment to the 2014-20 EU budget, that security cooperation between the UK and the EU would continue and likewise with medical and scientific research which, I understand from others more knowledgeable than me, has already begun to suffer.

All that is seriously jeopardised by the prospect of a ‘No Deal’ Brexit. It is not what many who supported the Leave campaign voted for any more than they voted for three years of a weaker pound, more expensive holidays, more expensive imports, more complicated border arrangements etc.

The Referendum resulted in a tiny majority for an ‘orderly and well managed’ exit from the EU. Only the most committed and obsessive Eurosceptics remain in favour of a ‘No Deal’...it is bad for both the UK and Europe and there is absolutely no mandate in the country or majority in Parliament for a ‘no deal’.

If you think otherwise, why are you and all the other Remainers so frightened of a second Referendum now that so many more are so much better informed of the consequences?

i and my parents are better informed than the public was in the seventies thank you very much.
I'll reiterate it again. Had they admitted what was being planned behind the scenes, we would have never joined in the first place.
all this would be a mute point.
By complying with them, you are advocating the deception.
It runs right to the core. Having recruited hundreds of school leavers in their ****s over the years.
Their lack of knowledge about EU history astounds me. They have been brain washed that the EU is the mother and father of us all.
From being able to get on a plane, to having food on the table is all down to the EU.
It scares me exactly what indoctination is taught in the education system today.

You seem easily scared, has the indoctrination been part of your training?

Recession is coming all over. The reality is dawning on the EU at last, what being a bunch of ****ty bullies gets you.
Let them sweat.

[Trickytreesreds]

GP. I mentioned why in a different context in another post on this thread yesterday. The Tory party had been tearing itself apart for years over the EU. The referendum had one purpose, namely, to reunite the Conservative and Unionist Party and hereby make it the party mst likely to get elected. Cameron et al never countenanced, in their wildest dreams, that Leave would garner more votes than Reamin. Without that huge split in the Tory party, there would never have been a referendum. No Brexit either.

Yet again individual and party interests have taken precedence over all else.

I hate the EU with a vengeance but I believe it needs killing from within by reform and the removal of the political clout, once more becoming a free trade area and no more than that.

Good call. But it won't change without something drastic happening.
You only have to listen to Verhofstadt to know that. Every hiccup, "more union" is the cry.

Us leaving, will in my opinion trigger others to consider it. It needs to be proven.
Unelected officials running large araes is just not on.

[ramAnag]

i and my parents are better informed than the public was in the seventies thank you very much.
I'll reiterate it again. Had they admitted what was being planned behind the scenes, we would have never joined in the first place.
all this would be a mute point.
By complying with them, you are advocating the deception.
It runs right to the core. Having recruited hundreds of school leavers in their ****s over the years.
Their lack of knowledge about EU history astounds me. They have been brain washed that the EU is the mother and father of us all.
From being able to get on a plane, to having food on the table is all down to the EU.
It scares me exactly what indoctination is taught in the education system today.

You seem easily scared, has the indoctrination been part of your training?

Recession is coming all over. The reality is dawning on the EU at last, what being a bunch of ****ty bullies gets you.
Let them sweat.

‘It scares me exactly what indoctrination is taught in the education system today...

...you seem easily scared, has the indoctrination been part of your training?’

What are you talking about? Htf do I appear either ‘easily scared’ or ‘indoctrinated’?

‘Unelected officials running large areas is just not on’. Two words...Dominic Cummings.

[Geoff Parkstone]

GP. I mentioned why in a different context in another post on this thread yesterday. The Tory party had

Maybe not such a "self evident truth" as I had thought, such that it needed repeating for the 173rd time on this thread!!

[Andy_Faber]

Oops...indeed...thank MA...senior moment!

not what I believe people - by definition Leavers - voted for.

Although you aren't quite so explicit here, its a tactic of an increasing number of in-denial remainers to state theat a no-deal Brexit is definitely NOT what leavers voted for. I keep reading the wording of the ballot paper and it for sure DOESN'T exclude a no-deal Brexit, in fact it isn't specific at all

[AngryRam]

I see Corbyn is trying to push for power and the Lib Dem’s have laughed in his face. Democracy is hanging by a thread but will break if the Remainers in Parliament push through a vote of no confidence. Absolutely shocking tactics.
Pelosi is also trying to muscle in on Brexit as well. Roll on October, get this behind us and we can then move forward.

[ramAnag]

Although you aren't quite so explicit here, its a tactic of an increasing number of in-denial remainers to state theat a no-deal Brexit is definitely NOT what leavers voted for. I keep reading the wording of the ballot paper and it for sure DOESN'T exclude a no-deal Brexit, in fact it isn't specific at all

Of course it doesn’t, Andy...it’s a simple ballot paper. You will though, I’m sure, remember all the talk of an ‘orderly and well managed exit’, and the desire for continued tariff free trading etc.
That and everything else I referred to earlier today will not be possible in a ‘no deal’ scenario.

[MadAmster]

Good call. But it won't change without something drastic happening.
You only have to listen to Verhofstadt to know that. Every hiccup, "more union" is the cry.

Us leaving, will in my opinion trigger others to consider it. It needs to be proven.
Unelected officials running large araes is just not on.

Tricky, it seems you an I are very much on he same page here.

1. Correct it won't change without something drastic happening. IMO the UK leaving isn't drastic enough in itself to prompt a huge change in EU direction.

2. Every bump in the road, every hiccough, every "populist" vote does, indeed, see Verhofstadt et al cry "more union" but that has always been their desire.

3. Us leaving won't get others considering **exit themselves, however, a Brexit that is closer to the paradise BoJo and Farage predicted than to the desolation Remainers predicted WILL see others daring to buck the EU horse and push for an exit themselves.

4. This is the bit where we differ. I used to be of the persuasion that the EU Commission is unelected but a review of facts and possibly my own thoughts led me to this comparison. In the UK we tend to have a General Election every 4 or years. That election decides which party(ies) form the government of the day. The leader of the largest party becomes Prime Minister. He/she in turn chooses the members of the cabinet. You and I cannot do anything during the term of that Parliament to sack the Home Secretary or the Chancellor of the Exchequer, only the PM can do that. We can only vote that party out of office come the next GE. In the case of the EU there are also set term elections for the MEP seats. Member states can put forward the names of possible candidates for membership of the EU Commission. The MEPs then vote for which candidate gets which job. This is where my knowledge lets me down a little, I don't know whether ther is a mechanism for ousting the likes of Juncker et al. Their jobs are up for renewal following each EU election.

In both Brussels and in Wetsminster, the Minister/Commissioner MAY be an MP/MEP but doesn't have to be although, in the case of the UK they are always (life peers) except in the case of Mendelson who was not an MP and still a layman when appointed Secretary of State for International Development but was made a life peer almost immediately after his appointment.

[swaledale]

Of course it doesn’t, Andy...it’s a simple ballot paper. You will though, I’m sure, remember all the talk of an ‘orderly and well managed exit’, and the desire for continued tariff free trading etc.
That and everything else I referred to earlier today will not be possible in a ‘no deal’ scenario.

Save your breath Anag, no amount of evidence or facts will dislodge the faithful that Brexit means a brave new dawn! Its the way of politics today, don't bother with facts or truth, just blather on in a way that the simple faithful like and hey ho they swallow any old *******s as long as it chimes with their views.

As for any one taking any notice of the Forest Fan on here, well that proves my point, seeing as most of his so called facts come from media sources that have been shown over and over again to be at most only distantly tainted by any facts. And now we have as Prime Minister a guy who made money from articles on the EU which he himself admits were pure fiction, stuff he had made up because it suited the media organisation he worked for and of course was lapped up by the idiots who read said media!

Its ironic thats there is much wailing about the unelected EU running things and then wailing equally loudly about elected MP's doing what they are elected for!

Of course such idiots only moan about unelected people doing stuff, if they disagree with it. Its so funny and so laughable its pure entertainment reading the piffle posted on here by many posters who don't have a ****ing clue what they are talking about - stick to football guys, at least there your opinions are valid!

[AngryRam]

Christ on a bike.. Sadler and Waldorf on a **** fest.