O/T:- Second referendum

[Pies4u]

As always, the media will lead the triumphalism and make no mention of the most important facts.

Pfeffel has absolute power based on 29% support of the electorate.

Lab/Lib dem 43.7 % popular vote, tories 43.6.
Overall, opposition parties have a majority over Brexit+tories but will be out of power because they're divided.
Our disproportional electoral system has given us a tory govt on a minority result yet again.
The electoral system isn't fit for purpose, just like over the ocean Trump lost by a million votes but still won absolute power. Funny that, don't you think?

In less than a year, they'll be one of the most hated govts of all time. All this one nation talk you hear today is hogwash, they've already been bought (not that they need any persuading) and will only rule for the rich and powerful, just like they always have.

Priceless! The politics of jealousy & envy - not to mention sticking your head in the sand.

The "dyed in the wool", hard nosed, "My granndad voted Labour, my dad voted Labour and I always vote Labour" attitude is a dying breed. Working people across the country have recognised this in ever increasing numbers for years. The amusing thing is that some people do actually believe that a government will only govern for "rich & powerful" -that handful of folks who are paying huge swathes of that HMRC contributions -and ignore the millions of people who they actually need to vote for them! "Ooh, the Tories..." that's the strap line.... fewer and fewer folks are buying this out dated, unrealistic dogma. Have you heard the news or read the papers?

!3 years of BLiar/Brown didn't do them much good either did it? Wilson & Callaghan bankrupted the nation and put industry on its knees. Great record in power for the "people's party"! I'd wake up and smell the roses/coffee if I were you.

[magpie_mania]

Priceless! The politics of jealousy & envy - not to mention sticking your head in the sand.

The "dyed in the wool", hard nosed, "My granndad voted Labour, my dad voted Labour and I always vote Labour" attitude is a dying breed. Working people across the country have recognised this in ever increasing numbers for years. The amusing thing is that some people do actually believe that a government will only govern for "rich & powerful" -that handful of folks who are paying huge swathes of that HMRC contributions -and ignore the millions of people who they actually need to vote for them! "Ooh, the Tories..." that's the strap line.... fewer and fewer folks are buying this out dated, unrealistic dogma. Have you heard the news or read the papers?

!3 years of BLiar/Brown didn't do them much good either did it? Wilson & Callaghan bankrupted the nation and put industry on its knees. Great record in power for the "people's party"! I'd wake up and smell the roses/coffee if I were you.

Spoken like a true Tory! Whatever happened to the People's Government, a time for healing etc?

Any chance Johnson will be trying to help the increasing numbers who need food banks, or those struggling genuinely with universal credit?

Many of those who voted Tory instead of Labour did it through gritted teeth, as said this morning, 'It's a borrowed vote'

By the way, for clarity, I voted Conservative as the least worse choice.

[Pies4u]

Calm down! I was only replying to the vitriolic post & rant from The A/C. It's so good to see/hear the dignified way so many Labour supporters have taken their defeat!

A few, particularly MP's who lost their seats managed to recognise the problems and were gracious. Plenty, like some on here just can't cope with it & revert to type. Nothing to do with "..like a true Tory.." - whatever that is supposed to mean.

You are an enigma MM - why did you not admonish The A/C for his undignified intervention? Then you, say "BTW, I voted Conservative" as though that, somehow, justifies your perennially inconsistent and perplexing posts. Your indignation and defence of those who don't need or seek your defending is always a joy.

[Elite_Pie]

Have you heard the news or read the papers?

Yes, and here's a link to the latest NHS figures:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50718869

Would you care to comment on them, or will you be the one burying their head in the sand?

[the_anticlough]

Priceless! The politics of jealousy & envy - not to mention sticking your head in the sand.

The "dyed in the wool", hard nosed, "My granndad voted Labour, my dad voted Labour and I always vote Labour" attitude is a dying breed. Working people across the country have recognised this in ever increasing numbers for years. The amusing thing is that some people do actually believe that a government will only govern for "rich & powerful" -that handful of folks who are paying huge swathes of that HMRC contributions -and ignore the millions of people who they actually need to vote for them! "Ooh, the Tories..." that's the strap line.... fewer and fewer folks are buying this out dated, unrealistic dogma. Have you heard the news or read the papers?

!3 years of BLiar/Brown didn't do them much good either did it? Wilson & Callaghan bankrupted the nation and put industry on its knees. Great record in power for the "people's party"! I'd wake up and smell the roses/coffee if I were you.

There was little sense in any of that - just hot air and tired cliche after tired cliche.

And what's the point? You know that the left isn't going away. With poverty and inequality at the obscene level it is and more people likely to sink into it, plus the climate disaster heading our way, the fight's already on. 10,269,076 people voted for Corbyn's Labour, many millions more will vote for his successor, you can bank on that.

[Pies4u]

Sorry, been away so long I forgot you are the forum arbiter as well as the master of the selective quote and post. Why don't you respond to the points I've made in respect of your posts and MM's comments before demanding answers from others?

Not your style to stick to topic and context if it doesn't suit you - just post something abstract or random, avoid what's being said and start your own agenda. Ask the hundreds of thousands of traditional Labour voters who switched their vote what they have to say about it - that will be far more enlightening & informative than anything I might care to add!

Stick to match assessments, as I've said before, you are quite good at that.

[sidders]

The electorate are so stupid aren't they Sidn? What do you want - another election 'cause you're not happy? Just how many elections and referendums to Liebour have to lose before you start to admit you haven't got it right?

All these people, politicians, Swinson included telling the electorate they were wrong. Oh dear.

Never - never - tell the electorate they are wrong - I thought there used to be a rule along those lines.

What you have to remember, Oldie, is that 50% of the nation has below average intelligence.
And because I am not a politician seeking office, I am quite at liberty to say that leaving the EU was a mistake and electing Johnson is a catastrophe. I don't seek to change either of those things though. People must bear the consequences of their own decisions and I will just have to bide my time.

[Pies4u]

There was little sense in any of that - just hot air and tired cliche after tired cliche.

And what's the point? You know that the left isn't going away. With poverty and inequality at the obscene level it is and more people likely to sink into it, plus the climate disaster heading our way, the fight's already on. Over 10,269,076 people voted for Corbyn's Labour, many millions more will vote for his successor, you can bank on that.

Really? Talking about dignified responses.....

You are not going to be convinced unless the Labour Party self destructs & disintegrates before your very eyes are you? So the debate is pointless.

[the_anticlough]

Really? Talking about dignified responses.....

You are not going to be convinced unless the Labour Party self destructs & disintegrates before your very eyes are you? So the debate is pointless.

You flatter yourself, I don't think 'debate' can describe your rant.

You don't get it, do you? People have values and core beliefs that transcend any political party. It's not County v Forest. The Labour Party, the tory party, any party could 'disintegrate' - it wouldn't change what's in front of your eyes every day or the sense that life for many millions could be so much better.

[Elite_Pie]

Sorry, been away so long I forgot you are the forum arbiter as well as the master of the selective quote and post. Why don't you respond to the points I've made in respect of your posts and MM's comments before demanding answers from others?

Not your style to stick to topic and context if it doesn't suit you - just post something abstract or random, avoid what's being said and start your own agenda. Ask the hundreds of thousands of traditional Labour voters who switched their vote what they have to say about it - that will be far more enlightening & informative than anything I might care to add!

Stick to match assessments, as I've said before, you are quite good at that.

Was that aimed at me? I asked for your comments on the state of the NHS after a decade of Tory rule. You completely avoided an answer.

Of course you don't have to give one, but you'll look a coward if you don't.