Hes out of work . So a bit touchy.Originally Posted by animallittle3
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The government definitely should have closed the borders and stopped planes coming in, I said that in the first Coronavirus thread on here, Australia and New Zealand did and look at the difference.
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Hes out of work . So a bit touchy.
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Swedish epidemiologist, says Ferguson's report was garbage.
https://www.aier.org/article/lockdow...ohan-giesecke/I think it’s not very good.
And the thing that they miss little is, any models for infectious disease spread are very popular – many people do them, they’re good for teaching – they seldom tell you the truth because, I make a small parenthesis, which model could have assumed that the outbreak would start in northern Italy in Europe? Difficult to model that one. And any such model – it looks complicated, there are strange mathematical formulas and integrals signs and stuff – but it rests on the assumptions, and the assumptions in that ought to be heavily criticized for – I won’t go through that it; would take to the rest of your day if I went through them all.
The paper was never published – scientifically – it’s not peer-reviewed, which scientific paper should be. It’s just an internal departmental report from Imperial, and it’s fascinating, I don’t think any other scientific endeavor has made such an impression on the world as that, rather debatable, paper.
The real reason he's resigned?
Last edited by great_fire; 07-05-2020 at 10:38 PM.
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I'm going to level with you fire and tell you where I am with all things politically .
I don't have to as I neither seek your approval and neither do the Labour Party need your vote given the way we decide elections .
But I will because tonight I just feel like doing it .
Yeh I'll knock the Tories , am I biased of course I am .
However and I mean this sincerely .
The onus is actually on the Labour Party to change the way the country is , where it's heading and it's future .
The Tory Party haven't had anything to say since Thatcher left the room in 1990 and I'm actually been kind at that since most of what was implemented was thought of in the 60's to mid 70's and she simply carried it out in the 80's .
At a bare minimum the Tories have had nowt to add in 45 years .
The position they are in is one of protecting what they achieved which is similar to what the left achieved after WW2 when the need was collectivism to rebuild the country , nationalisation , the NHS and the welfare state .
The world changed and the left ran out of ideas in the 70's and something new was needed .
The left had no answers and were swept aside by Thatcher , I didn't like it and I fought it so I understand the Tories wanting to protect what they have , I didn't give it up easily and neither are the Tories .
We are at a point in time where something new has to be found , we've probably had this position since 2008 when we had the financial crisis but clearly New Labour had no ideas either .
What we've had over the last 10 years is a governing party simply trying to maintain the Thatcher legacy and an opposition not good enough to come up with a credible alternative and that includes Brown , Miliband and Corbyn .
Trashing the Tories isn't anywhere near good enough for myself or the Labour Party , we do it because quite frankly we haven't much else .
There's a lot riding on Starmer and this pandemic as much as a tragedy that it is and I sincerely wish it wasn't this way also provides opportunity to change the country we are for the better .
The country is crying out for new ideas and a new approach .
Every ideology has a life span of perhaps 40 or 50 years .
So whilst I'll bash the Tories and support the Labour Party I'm still to be convinced until I see a strategy and some election winning ideas .
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I get what youre saying and it must be difficult for you as a Lawyer to shoot from the hip without evidence and a fair trial.
Odd though that you didnt wait for the science and an objective analysis before slinging the Peoples Republic Communist Government up from the same sturdy tree a short while ago.
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Blimey, Zyles. My job was all that you and Roly wanted to talk about a few days ago. How many times did you ask about my professional qualifications?
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The Guardian is a bit behind the curve re: Op Cygnus; the story broke several weeks ago.
What the article shows is that the government resourced, planned and undertook a planning exercise in 2016 to model the likely impact of a flu pandemic on the UK. In other words, they were seeking to prepare for such an event.
You are right that the government should be asked what was done to learn from the exercise. It will come out that there was to have been a parliamentary inquiry into bio security last year, but it was cancelled due to parliamentary time being unavailable due to the tribulations over Brexit.
I imagine that any inquiry into the implementation or non-implementation (we don’t know) of the Cygnus findings will find that the task was put on the back burner because high mortality pandemics are very rare.
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Apparently, more than 18 million people arrived on planes between Jan and April this year, far too many to quarantine.
There were far too many (Johns crew) who despite knowing the problems still decided to go ski-ing in Italy or backpacking in Peru. These same people moaned when they couldn't get home after being stranded, completely irresponsible, these people will be the the ones who think the lock down is for others
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I think this is where I differ from certain other posters; you see smoking guns, whereas I see newspaper chatter that is largely based upon the notion that there were and are easy solutions to the pandemic. Newspaper companies want to sell newspapers; wanting to inform may be secondary to that.
Take for example, PPE. I have pointed out earlier in this thread the massive task that our government and every other government in the world has faced to acquire it in quantity given the sudden massive demand. The Guardian article that you linked to yesterday illustrated the difficulties they have faced where, on the face of it, suppliers are putting sub-standard products into the market to take advantage of the situation. Despite that, the media approach the issue upon the basis that it can be solved with the click of a finger and the nod of a ministerial head. Poor government comms haven’t helped however.
I hope that we will have a Public Inquiry –informed by science- at the end of this in order to establish exactly what did happen, but, with respect, your post exemplifies an issue with such a venture, which is that some people have already decided what the outcome should be. In other words, if an inquiry concludes that the government made some mistakes, but largely did its best based upon the information and science available, there will be large swathes of their political opponents who will simply not accept it and who will, instead, insist that ‘the establishment’ and ‘money’ has distorted ‘the truth’.
In the event of the government being ‘acquitted’, I can pretty much guarantee that the media and Labour Party will wheel out people who have lost loved ones to Covid19 to make (understandably) emotional attacks upon that finding.
And the other issue with an Inquiry will be whether it has any sacred cows. If we are interested in the truth then there can be no stones unturned, including any that might be unpalatable. What do you suppose the response will be (from the Left in particular) if, for example, an investigation were to point to fault with the concept of the NHS or which suggested that some ethnic minority communities might have contributed to the high death rates within them for behavioural reasons? I would stress that I am not suggesting that either would prove to be the case (said Kerr from the middle of the minefield), but an inquiry needs to look at every possible issue, not just those that would afford ammunition to those who want to find fault with the government.
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I pointed out that Chinese government officials had 'disciplined' a doctor who spoke up about Covid19 at a time when rapid government action might have stopped the infection in its tracks. That is criticism based upon fact, unless you know otherwise? I have not joined in with the 'it escaped from a lab in Wuhan' type speculation.
P.s. I don't think I have ever expressly claimed to have been a lawyer.
Last edited by KerrAvon; 08-05-2020 at 06:53 AM.
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