The inquest

[Elite_Pie]

What you have done there is cherry picked two examples, you could of thrown Watford in the mix too. Questionable examples, Bury spent money they didn't have, got promoted and only a short time into the next season in L1 they are expelled out of the league. Yay, I bet the fans look back on the L2 promotion with such pride.

Not for the first time, you are completely missing the point. Firstly they are hardly cherry picked as they were both in the same division as us last season, and they both had the same off-field turmoil as us. The difference? They overcame their troubles and we didn't. The point is that a bad atmosphere behind the scenes doesn't have to mean failure. If the manager and players showed a bit of fight and spirit it's still possible to achieve something. Do you honestly think that Ardley and our players showed fight and spirit last season?

Let check in on Macc this season, 22nd in L2 and in a relegation battle.

You've just shot yourself in the foot with a 12 bore there, because Macc this season are a perfect example of the point I made above!
Their off field problems this time are far worse than we had last season - players and staff unpaid, failing to fulfil fixtures, players on strike, having to field youth players to make a team, six points deducted, and their very existence in grave doubt. According to the logic you use to defend Ardley, they should be a long way adrift at the bottom. Instead they are six points above the relegation place with a game in hand, and would be in 15th place if they didn't have those points docked. That's what a bit of fight and spirit can do.

You really have made an almighty fool of yourself there, I was almost tempted to finish with a 'lol'!

[SwalePie]

Evening Laddo
I didn't want to go into endless details about mangers and AH but let me dissect this bit by bit as you have asked.
Nolan was and should have been sacked , he had a woeful preseason and the squad he assembled proved to be a DUD one, seeing as they got us relegated can there be any argument about this?
He wasn't sacked on the basis of losing at the start of the season it was also based on the poor form from the end of the season before.
However looking at the start of the season we were losing by four goals a game and getting played of the park. The game we drew at home0-0 (Stevenage I think) we should have lost 5 - 0.
Yeovil came down the lane and played us of the park and beat us by four ( or was it more ) How can a manger have got it so wrong with his pre season signings and then want to have another go after half a dozen games ..
then comes HK of course he was wrong to sack him , he didn't even have a transfer window to operate in yet still managed to get us playing better with the underperforming troop that KN put together.

AH then appointed NA which on paper looked a good appointment , it certainly wasn't along the lines of the Fullerton appointment, he put his faith and money in NA which went unrewarded.
yes you can blame AH for the appointment , but ultimately it was NA who built the team that took us down and he implemented the style of play that took us there, negative lets not get beaten (even though we needed to win) cautious beyond belief.
Looking back you could perhaps under stand that maybe the pressure of defeat was immense hence the tactics employed.
But has he learnt from this , well judging by his continued style , NO !

Again returning to AH stewardship , yes he was good for the club where he indeed raised the profile and gates but lets not forget he nearly ruined the club financially.
Yes we can blame him all day long for this , but we cant and shouldn't blame him for the way the Team played and the tactics employed.
This is nailed on the managers fault , never mind what was going on behind the scenes the manager picks the team trains the players and makes crucial decisions in the 90 minutes or so during a game , simple.
He lives or dies by this, whatever the obstacles put in his way are there for him to deal with.
one last point , could you please point out for me any of the occasions that AH gave a penalty away , scored an own goal , left his man unmarked at the back post for a tap in , missed a penalty , put one wide when through one on one with the keeper or got sent off leaving us defend 70 minutes with 10 men ????

Yes AH picked and sacked the managers , but KN and NA had more than enough support & time to have been a success rather than the disappointment's they are and were,

Bloody good post Pedro

[laddo]

Not for the first time, you are completely missing the point. Firstly they are hardly cherry picked as they were both in the same division as us last season, and they both had the same off-field turmoil as us. The difference? They overcame their troubles and we didn't. The point is that a bad atmosphere behind the scenes doesn't have to mean failure. If the manager and players showed a bit of fight and spirit it's still possible to achieve something. Do you honestly think that Ardley and our players showed fight and spirit last season?



You've just shot yourself in the foot with a 12 bore there, because Macc this season are a perfect example of the point I made above!
Their off field problems this time are far worse than we had last season - players and staff unpaid, failing to fulfil fixtures, players on strike, having to field youth players to make a team, six points deducted, and their very existence in grave doubt. According to the logic you use to defend Ardley, they should be a long way adrift at the bottom. Instead they are six points above the relegation place with a game in hand, and would be in 15th place if they didn't have those points docked. That's what a bit of fight and spirit can do.

You really have made an almighty fool of yourself there, I was almost tempted to finish with a 'lol'!

You could of ended it with £2.53 of course or an IQ challenge , or another offer with maybe lunch thrown in this time. Should I be scared?

Of course you cherry picked, as you picked 2 (I believe you dont have too many more up your sleeve) whereas the examples of off field troubles increasing the likelihood of relegation are numerous , it happens every single season.

I never said they should be a long way adrift at all (you doing it again careful now), I simply said Macc are once again in a relegation battle. So two seasons of off field problems and both seasons they are in a relegation battle. Funny that. I like the way you conveniently forgot to highlight that due to Bury going bust and kicked out of the league , that this season unlike last there is only one relegation spot) , with Stevenage a little drift. That changes it a little.

To answer your question , no there wasnt enough fight and character shown by an Ardley team, nor was there one shown by the team selected by Nolan (in fact that period of the season was the worst and most embarrassing as we conceded 3 or 4 every game). Kewell's side showed fight for about 4 games before he was sacked. So no the managers , nor the players didn't show enough fight last season.

To finish off, you missed the bit about Sol Campbell at Southend. You've mentioned him before, cherry picked. Obviously he worked wonders at Macc last season, and this future great manager (?) knew exactly how to galvanise the squad , develop that siege mentality you mentioned and fight fight fight. So just one season later, where's it gone Sol? Why has his ability to fight gone AWOL. His siege mentality is MIA. How's he doing at Southend?

Bit of advice, if you are going to cherry pick, take your time, do some research otherwise you look a little silly.

[Elite_Pie]

You could of ended it with £2.53 of course or an IQ challenge , or another offer with maybe lunch thrown in this time. Should I be scared?

Of course you cherry picked, as you picked 2 (I believe you dont have too many more up your sleeve) whereas the examples of off field troubles increasing the likelihood of relegation are numerous , it happens every single season.

I never said they should be a long way adrift at all (you doing it again careful now), I simply said Macc are once again in a relegation battle. So two seasons of off field problems and both seasons they are in a relegation battle. Funny that. I like the way you conveniently forgot to highlight that due to Bury going bust and kicked out of the league , that this season unlike last there is only one relegation spot) , with Stevenage a little drift. That changes it a little.

To answer your question , no there wasnt enough fight and character shown by an Ardley team, nor was there one shown by the team selected by Nolan (in fact that period of the season was the worst and most embarrassing as we conceded 3 or 4 every game). Kewell's side showed fight for about 4 games before he was sacked. So no the managers , nor the players didn't show enough fight last season.

To finish off, you missed the bit about Sol Campbell at Southend. You've mentioned him before, cherry picked. Obviously he worked wonders at Macc last season, and this future great manager (?) knew exactly how to galvanise the squad , develop that siege mentality you mentioned and fight fight fight. So just one season later, where's it gone Sol? Why has his ability to fight gone AWOL. His siege mentality is MIA. How's he doing at Southend?

Bit of advice, if you are going to cherry pick, take your time, do some research otherwise you look a little silly.

Epic bit of squirming, but it's there in black and white for everyone to see that you have defeated your own argument!

You should quit while you're behind.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

Of course I can, I've noticed you tend to need a lot of explanations , the penalty kick rule, what a guess and estimate are. Let's add another to the list.

What you have done there is cherry picked two examples, you could of thrown Watford in the mix too. Questionable examples, Bury spent money they didn't have, got promoted and only a short time into the next season in L1 they are expelled out of the league. Yay, I bet the fans look back on the L2 promotion with such pride . Remind anyone of our Munto season? Great isolated season but we didn't know at the time the damage it was doing long term.

Then we have Macclesfield, who under the Sol Man did superb last season to survive after a truly awful start. You have previously highlighted how Sol Campbell worked his magic by generating a siege mentality which Ardley didn't do.

Let check in on Macc this season, 22nd in L2 and in a relegation battle. Now you might say that's because decent manager Sol left. A temporary reprieve perhaps?

Ok so let's check in on Sol Campbell at Southend, 22nd in L1 and in a relegation battle.

So what happened? Did Sol lose his magic? Forget to take that siege mentality with him?

If you are going to cherry pick, make sure you pick well lol (I'm laughing because your examples are appalling but typically a short term view).

For every Bury and Macc there are far more sides who have offfield issues who as a result end the season with relegation. So many.

If Notts had stayed up by a point or two last season, the damage had already been done. Mr Hardy had recklessly used money he didn't have to chase the dream of Championship , no sorry, L1 football and at the same time gambled the very existence of our beloved football club. Yay for Alan, the history maker. But you are right he never stopped a cross, missed a chance or influence picking the team or signings (although there were strong rumours of that on NCM last season).

So what you are saying is that had Notts stayed up they would either be relegated this season (macc) or go out of business this season. (Bury)

Yet this season we haven’t gone out of business despite having less revenue. And we were relegated anyway.

Since the latter doom didn’t transpire, is it fair to say the former might also not have?

[upthemaggies]

This is the table on the day Kewell was sacked.

Note that we hadn't yet played anybody down the bottom at that stage apart from Macc, from which Kewell took all three points, and we'd played 4 of the top 7 away from home. So a chunk of the hardest fixtures were out of the way and the easier fixtures still to come.
Enter Neal Ardley.

At the time Nolan was sacked, three of his five games had been away including trips to the ultimate champions Lincoln City and play off runners up to be Newport County, we'd also played Colchester who just missed out and Yeovil who started well, they were 6th going into the final weekend of September. So it was a tough start.