O/T, Italy's Nuclear option

[Vladpie]

... yes, a joke destroying the boats mid-way to Italy. Should be done on the Libyan shore before migrants get in.

I meant that the smugglers were blatantly being allowed to recover motors and even boats to be re-used.

I still think also that having these welcoming parties on the beaches, ready with blankets and so forth, does nothing to create an image that puts anyone off risking the journey.

[navypie]

I normally stay away from posts like this but I will have my say . We all know the European Navies are running a ferry service for the people smugglers who are getting richer and richer . It wont change and they will keep on coming until the indigenous people are driven out and then will we go ? Their **** ideas on how to run a country or in fact a continent will mean Europe will eventually be f****D and then they will have nowhere to go . So is there a solution ? yes stop them coming , will we , no . Just a point on Tony Blair suggesting we could stay in the EU because they might be willing to move on the freedom of movement , well for the bloke who did so much for making sure it happened , how rich !! Politics I like to stay away from because I aint great but neither is Diane Abbott !

[AltyPie]

In April 2016, the BBC carried a story on how one Italian party was complaining it was “full”, that it wanted the EU to push for bilateral deals with African countries to make it easier to send economic migrants and failed asylum seekers back home. Today, countries north of Italy are less accepting than they were but the migrant flow continues. In Jan 2010, Pew Research published results of a poll in which 94% of Italians said immigration was a “big problem” and 64% said it was a “very big problem” (the highest of the 47 countries polled). Given the details in Douglas Murray’s new book and the terror that’s occurred since that 2010 Pew poll, it would be hard to believe Italian attitudes to immigration had softened.

The next Italian election has to take place before May 2018. My understanding is that the “5 Star Movement” is the Italian Euro-sceptic party. The proof in the pudding of just how strongly Italians feel about the migration issue will presumably be the success of this party.

[drillerpie]

In April 2016, the BBC carried a story on how one Italian party was complaining it was “full”, that it wanted the EU to push for bilateral deals with African countries to make it easier to send economic migrants and failed asylum seekers back home. Today, countries north of Italy are less accepting than they were but the migrant flow continues. In Jan 2010, Pew Research published results of a poll in which 94% of Italians said immigration was a “big problem” and 64% said it was a “very big problem” (the highest of the 47 countries polled). Given the details in Douglas Murray’s new book and the terror that’s occurred since that 2010 Pew poll, it would be hard to believe Italian attitudes to immigration had softened.

The next Italian election has to take place before May 2018. My understanding is that the “5 Star Movement” is the Italian Euro-sceptic party. The proof in the pudding of just how strongly Italians feel about the migration issue will presumably be the success of this party.

The 5 star movement (m5s) is a strange party, founded by a comedian and a (now deceased) computer expert a few years ago and has made great strides in a short time, mostly on an anti corruption platform. Its representatives and policies are decided by members-only online votes, although they tend to vote for whatever Beppe Grillo (the now undisputed spiritual leader) tells them to. I think their current position is stay inside the EU but have a referendum on the euro.

The proper eurosceptic party would be Lega Nord. They were founded by a mentalist who said that northern Italians were ethnically celtic and different from swarthy untrustworthy southern Italians, so they wanted independence for the new northern italian state of padania. After they realised that open racism to their own countrymen was not really a vote winner they focussed on eastern Europeans and now Muslims and Africans arriving via boat. The leader, Matteo Salvini, is absolutely hilarious by the way. He has a massive hard on for Putin and gets a selfie with a a bemused looking Vladimir now and again. He once went to red square to unfurl a banner supporting his hero and got nicked for making a political protest without permission.

After that you have what is left of the fascist parties, Casa Pound, Fratelli d'Italia, Forza Nuova etc. Mussolini's granddaughter is in one of them but can't remember which one.

[AltyPie]

The 5 star movement (m5s) is a strange party, founded by a comedian and a (now deceased) computer expert a few years ago and has made great strides in a short time, mostly on an anti corruption platform. Its representatives and policies are decided by members-only online votes, although they tend to vote for whatever Beppe Grillo (the now undisputed spiritual leader) tells them to. I think their current position is stay inside the EU but have a referendum on the euro.

The proper eurosceptic party would be Lega Nord. They were founded by a mentalist who said that northern Italians were ethnically celtic and different from swarthy untrustworthy southern Italians, so they wanted independence for the new northern italian state of padania. After they realised that open racism to their own countrymen was not really a vote winner they focussed on eastern Europeans and now Muslims and Africans arriving via boat. The leader, Matteo Salvini, is absolutely hilarious by the way. He has a massive hard on for Putin and gets a selfie with a a bemused looking Vladimir now and again. He once went to red square to unfurl a banner supporting his hero and got nicked for making a political protest without permission.

After that you have what is left of the fascist parties, Casa Pound, Fratelli d'Italia, Forza Nuova etc. Mussolini's granddaughter is in one of them but can't remember which one.

I had a go once at trying to understand Italian politics and their political system. It seems to be based on some sort of PR but I gave up as it just came across as a right dogs breakfast of a system. I suppose if you were the EU the last thing you'd want is one single strong party getting in that might push for a referendum exit vote. The EU presumably would prefer a mess of a PR type system where the largest vote could go to a single Eurosceptic party but they can't form a Govt and a Govt is then formed via coalition of two smaller Pro-EU parties.

That Salvini guy sounds like he might be a bit Corbyn-like then? A lefty leader and the butt of a few jokes that no-one takes seriously now, but might become someone significant as the election draws closer especially if he makes the right Eurosceptic noises? His limited provincialist position (that you describe) would presumably go against him though?

This graph is interesting : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_I...neral_election
It seems to show the 5 Star party climbing significantly in the polls. This must be a bit worrying for the EU as another country voting Brexit would surely end the EU. Being someone who’s not exactly in love with the EU, I’ll watch this with interest.
Have you studied a bit about Italian politics? Seems you have a bit of background. If so, what do you think are the chances of an Italexit or whatever name they’d give it?

Late Edit : Just had a quick read about that Salvini guy - says he likes right wing populist parties like France's FN - but he also has Putin as a hero - bit confusing...

[BigFatPie]

I had a go once at trying to understand Italian politics and their political system.

This graph is interesting : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_I...neral_election
It seems to show the 5 Star party climbing significantly in the polls. This must be a bit worrying for the EU as another country voting Brexit would surely end the EU....

The ongoing shambles of Brexit means no other country will vote to exit for the next 20 years. The UK couldn't have done more to strengthen the EU if it tried.

[JoePass]

The ongoing shambles of Brexit means no other country will vote to exit for the next 20 years. The UK couldn't have done more to strengthen the EU if it tried.

Lol stop reading the Guardian. This country is about to be great again after ridding ourselves of unelected idiots who do not know the value of money or our sovereignty.

[BigFatPie]

"Lol". Whatever you say Joe.

[Elite_Pie]

Lol stop reading the Guardian. This country is about to be great again after ridding ourselves of unelected idiots who do not know the value of money or our sovereignty.

Head in the sand as usual. You haven't noticed that prices are rising faster than wages?

[JoePass]

Head in the sand as usual. You haven't noticed that prices are rising faster than wages?

Talking about sand, just got back off the beach, too hot. I knew I would get both you Guardianistas to bite.