O/T Magic Murray in Madrid

[TheRealSLYFOX]

Ok, compared to three of the absolute best players ever, and the players Murray has had to beat to win the titles he has won, Murray doesn't look so good.

How about comparing his win percentage to other historically top class players, Cash, or Lendl or Becker? I'm gonna guess 20-40% will be a much more common success rate.

I'm not sure there is a consensus that Murray has a better all round game than certainly Djokovich or Federer. It's debatable for sure but personally, I think most would rate Murray at least 3rd, if not 4th, out of the 4 based on the overall game of each player at their peak.

For me, Murray dips below the all time legend status of players like Borg, Sampras, Laver or Federer but is in with the truly great players like Becker, Edberg, Cash or McEnroe.

Becker = 60%
Edberg = 55%
Cash = 33%
McEnroe = 64%

[TheRealSLYFOX]

I've checked some of the others-
Connors = 53%
Agassi = 53%
Lendl = 42%
Borg = 69%
Wilander = 64%
Courier = 57%
Wawrinka = 100%
Safin = 50%
Hewitt = 50%

I cant find anyone in tennis history who has won a grand slam anywhere near as low as 20%. Cash is closest but he only made 3 finals.

[thestooge]

Lendl and Cash lost more finals than they won.

Are they emotionally fragile or mentally weak in your opinion?

The Spain side that won in 2008, 2010 and 2012 did they win those consecutive trophies because they were mentally stronger than their opponents or because they were considerably better at football? Had Germany, Holland and Italy just been a little bit mentally tougher, would things have been different?

How many times have the bookies backed Murray in a final? Do you think they make a decision based on perceived mental strength? When Murray has won, it's been against the odds. Does that not show mental strength?

When players and teams fall short, their "bottle" is always brought into doubt. This despite the fact the individuals involved have put them through challenges most people can't even imagine to achieve the standards they have.

If Murray was losing finals to players ranked beneath him, you could legitimately question his character, but even when he's won, he's had to overcome players expected to beat him.

[thestooge]

Federer, quite probably the best player ever, has lost his last three finals on the trot, all to Djokovich.

Federer hasn't actually won a Grand Slam final against Djokovich or Nadal since 2007. He's only won 3 of his titles against Nadal or Djokovich in fact in total. So, against those two, he's 3 for 12. Must be lacking in mental strength like.

[TheRealSLYFOX]

Lendl was mentally weak. He’s one of only 2 players to lose his first 4 GS finals, guess who the other was? He won more tour titles than everyone except Connors but “only” won 8 Slams. He had a reputation for choking in GS finals. Its why he was such a good fit for Murray, as he knew exactly what his problems were, he’d been there and worn the T shirt.
Cash was just an average player who only ever won 6 titles (Murray has 36) in his career and got a bit lucky to win Wimbledon.
If Murray plays at his best he beats Federer, Djokovic and Nadal he’s shown it time and time again. I really believe A game Murray beats A game Djokovic. The problem is that in GS finals its C game Murray that turns up.
It was very interesting listening to, athletics coach, Frank Dick dissect Murray’s on court demeanour and behaviour yesterday on Radio Scotland. In his opinion he handed the title to Djokovic not due to lack of ability or skill but by body language and his interaction with his team. When Djokovic looks at his box he sees Becker stoney faced and mean, Murray sees his Delgado and his mum! Murray has a coach, a hitting partner, a fitness trainer, a physio, and a chiropractor but has refused his whole career to use a psychologist. I think he will regret that once he retires.

[TheRealSLYFOX]

Federer, quite probably the best player ever, has lost his last three finals on the trot, all to Djokovich.

Federer hasn't actually won a Grand Slam final against Djokovich or Nadal since 2007. He's only won 3 of his titles against Nadal or Djokovich in fact in total. So, against those two, he's 3 for 12. Must be lacking in mental strength like.

At Slam level Federer is finished, he's only won one since 2010 and that was Wimbledon against Murray in 2012, when again Murray should have won that match!

[thestooge]

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree fella.

I'm sure we both agree that we want Murray to do his best and fulfil his potential.

He's probably only got a handful more finals in him, I really hope he can grab another major title or two.

[TheRealSLYFOX]

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree fella.

I'm sure we both agree that we want Murray to do his best and fulfil his potential.

He's probably only got a handful more finals in him, I really hope he can grab another major title or two.

I'd like nothing more than him to win another 4 or 5!

[Jupiter]

One of Murray's problems is that his 10 grand slam finals have all been against Federer & Djokovic. You would normally expect to have more than 2 different opponents in 10 finals, especially as they have been spread over 8 years.

[Steve1903]

To the opinion above that stated Murray's A game is better than that of Djokovic. Really? I reckon if you polled every senior tennis player on that question you'd get a 100% result of the opposite opinion.