OT: Jezzer turns his back on the referendum result

[sidders]

Go on the Grauniad website, Hayle, and read what Corbyn says about nationalised industries. I said the EU 'has always had a left of centre' stance but I agree that the right is making some threatening noises but only in Austria are they mounting a serious attempt at power.
The UK may well yet emerge from this by reshaping the EU in ways that Cameron would like to have done but had no cred. Oh, btw, the 1966 was a joke, Hayle.

[HaylePie]

Go on the Grauniad website, Hayle, and read what Corbyn says about nationalised industries. I said the EU 'has always had a left of centre' stance but I agree that the right is making some threatening noises but only in Austria are they mounting a serious attempt at power.
The UK may well yet emerge from this by reshaping the EU in ways that Cameron would like to have done but had no cred. Oh, btw, the 1966 was a joke, Hayle.

Only in Austria - AfD? Italy (various)? OK, not in power but there is strong likelihood that they will soon hold the balance of power in coalitions. Watch this space.

Nationalised industries - I have no bother with them. I don't even consider Corbyn remotely radical, I believe most of Europe has major utilities under government control. Just because they were poorly run here in the 70s/80s doesn't mean they have to be now (no reason why PFIs can't be well-handled either). However, JC's argument that re-nationalisation is cost neutral has, I believe, been radished by just about every report I have seen - granted some by vested interests. I hope that he is right.

As for 1966 - apologies for not spotting the humour Sid, but the default for many is the little-Englander racist stance; it avoids having to find reasonable arguments I guess. I suspect that a lot of left-leaners voted Remain in a Pavlovian response to opposing anything Tory/UKIP. The EU is like the Tories on speed in many areas. I fail to see how anyone can dislike one and not the other tbh.

[cerebellum]

Well, here's part of what he said in Coventry

''There will be some who will tell you that Brexit is a disaster for this country and some who will tell you that Brexit will create a land of milk and honey.

The truth is more down to earth and it’s in our hands.

Brexit is what we make of it together, the priorities and choices we make in the negotiations.

This Conservative government is damaging our country and their priorities for Brexit risk increasing the damage.''

Seems like 'Brexit' happening is still the working assumption. Does supporting some kind of Customs Union mean Brexit is absolutely impossible? Turkey is in a customs union with the EU and will probably never be a member.

It does seem strange that this change has taken so long to happen. After all an agreement was made with the Tories after the referendum. I presume the general feeling is that the original brexiteers are now so uncertain that they will not react to this change? Is something else going on inside Labour, despite his words Corbyn does not look completely happy with what he is saying on this. The Customs Union does not stop Brexit though. What it does is make the economic advantages of leaving almost non-existant. The freedom to create trade agreements like those already tentatively agreed with Australia, China, India and partly with the USA will not be possible if a Customs Union form is used. It completely ties us to the EU in economic terms and yet we still have to pay for the priviledge of leaving?

So much of central government has been on the basis of informal consent and now here, and to some extent with the Democrats and Republicans in the States, this seems to be challenged or removed.

Very messy. May help Labour to bring them down but not sure than it is legally or economically worth it at this stage.

[Trickytreesreds]

Where to start?

Things will change - very assured. What? How?

Europe - 'left of centre' - Where? Austria and Germany have neo-nazis in Parliament (we had a single UKIP guy and they are hardly nutcase right wingers despite what's spouted), the Visegrad countries - left of centre? In fact, the whole left/right thing is nonsense with the EU as a good number of political parties to both Left and Right of the mainstream are EU-sceptic. Look at what is happening in Italy right now. Even in the UK, until today at least, JC was more likely to deliver a hard Brexit than May.

The idea that the UK is out of kilter with most EU countries on refugees/immigration is laughable. There is a reason so many want to come here - because we are more welcoming and fair-minded, why else would people live in the abject poverty and disgraceful conditions in N France whilst not seeking asylum? The whole 'Brits are racists' defies all logic given the state of politics in Europe and is standard Brit self-loathing stuff. The WW2, 1966 stuff is poor from a guy as bright as you - if people want to make the case FOR the EU then fine - I love a good debate - but why does it have to manifest itself as being so AGAINST the UK all the time.

Ouch, the Guardian lovers won't like that you racist, xenophobic,islamophobic,nazi. lol

[HaylePie]

Ouch, the Guardian lovers won't like that you racist, xenophobic,islamophobic,nazi. lol

No matter which side people are on, John Crace's sketch in today's Guardian is well worth a read.

[tarquinbeech]

I like Mr Hayle.....he talks a lot of sense

[i961pie]

Exactly, and it shows the folly of trusting a decision of this magnitude to an uninformed electorate. Still nobody knows what 'Brexit' actually means, including those negotiating it! I suspect many leavers voted on the romantic idea that it would mean all those nasty foreigners get sent packing and we rule the world again. I'm sure the likes of Soccerman and seriouspie still adhere to that, but anyone with half a brain must now realise that's not going to happen.

I wonder what the people with a whole brain think?

[jackal2]

It's a very strange thing for me to say, but I'm with George Galloway on this, for those who George's saw opinion piece on 'This Week' last Thursday night. He was basically quoting Napoleon's "Never interrupt your enemy when he is busy making a mistake".

Jeremy Corbyn didn't need to do or say anything. He was sitting pretty watching the Conservative Party publicly tear itself apart, whilst largely avoiding having to address the conflict between his own private view and that of the Blairites.

Today, Jeremy has issued a statement which I still don't think will be personally satisfying to him, and by so doing has compromised the one quality that in many people's view sets him apart from the "typical" modern day politician, namely his relatively high degree of ideological integrity.

I don't know if he's been 'got at' by the Blairites, or whether he's more like the "rest" than I gave him credit for, but it could be a bad move, especially in terms of trying to win back the working class Labour vote in the north.

[tarquinbeech]

I wonder what the people with a whole brain think?

No point in asking Mr Elitist.

[Elite_Pie]

No point in asking Mr Elitist.

Says the half-wit who thinks that 5 seconds makes a minute!