Thats what i call ambition

[animallittle3]

The accounts indicate he converted the loan to shares. It means the club dont have to pay it back (it does not appear as a debt). Companies borrow money if there is a shortfall. £6m indicates there was a big shortfall in the period Cryer was owner up to when Lee took over. It proved the club is not self sustaining.

That's not quite the whole story with respect WanChai .

The club is run in an entirely different way from Cryne's early to mid years of his tenure , it was hemorrhaging money left , right and centre for many years and we owed Patrick a considerable amount of money .

Patrick developed a policy of trying to become self sufficient with a model of recruiting young hungry talent with the aim to sell on at a good profit , the club will not recruit anyone over 24 years of age .

Financially it proved to be a very good model with £25m coming in to the club through the sale of players on a minimal investment , not too grand for us slipping down to league one mind you .

The current crop contain some players who if sold will once again show a huge profit on investment , Pinnock , Woodrow , Moore , Lindsay and Mowatt would fetch in over £10m in today's market for an outlay of around £3.5m , offers were turned down in January for both Thiam and Cavare who would have brought in double the price we paid , according to what we were told .

So going on recent times we are heading towards self sustainability under this model , that's not to say its a success on the field or that this model will remain a profitable one .

That said the club do seem to be able to find the talent at a consistent level in terms of making profit , for how long ? , who knows .

[WanChaiMiller]

That's not quite the whole story with respect WanChai .

The club is run in an entirely different way from Cryne's early to mid years of his tenure , it was hemorrhaging money left , right and centre for many years and we owed Patrick a considerable amount of money .

Patrick developed a policy of trying to become self sufficient with a model of recruiting young hungry talent with the aim to sell on at a good profit , the club will not recruit anyone over 24 years of age .

Financially it proved to be a very good model with £25m coming in to the club through the sale of players on a minimal investment , not too grand for us slipping down to league one mind you .

The current crop contain some players who if sold will once again show a huge profit on investment , Pinnock , Woodrow , Moore , Lindsay and Mowatt would fetch in over £10m in today's market for an outlay of around £3.5m , offers were turned down in January for both Thiam and Cavare who would have brought in double the price we paid , according to what we were told .

So going on recent times we are heading towards self sustainability under this model , that's not to say its a success on the field or that this model will remain a profitable one .

That said the club do seem to be able to find the talent at a consistent level in terms of making profit , for how long ? , who knows .

I get what you're saying. Yet dispite this the club made losses in 3 of the last 4 years.

18 - (1.4) / 17 - +3.5 / 16 - (9m) / 15 - (3.5)

[gkotw]

That's not quite the whole story with respect WanChai .

The club is run in an entirely different way from Cryne's early to mid years of his tenure , it was hemorrhaging money left , right and centre for many years and we owed Patrick a considerable amount of money .

Patrick developed a policy of trying to become self sufficient with a model of recruiting young hungry talent with the aim to sell on at a good profit , the club will not recruit anyone over 24 years of age .

Financially it proved to be a very good model with £25m coming in to the club through the sale of players on a minimal investment , not too grand for us slipping down to league one mind you .

The current crop contain some players who if sold will once again show a huge profit on investment , Pinnock , Woodrow , Moore , Lindsay and Mowatt would fetch in over £10m in today's market for an outlay of around £3.5m , offers were turned down in January for both Thiam and Cavare who would have brought in double the price we paid , according to what we were told .

So going on recent times we are heading towards self sustainability under this model , that's not to say its a success on the field or that this model will remain a profitable one .

That said the club do seem to be able to find the talent at a consistent level in terms of making profit , for how long ? , who knows .

Its also a risky model. So much so that its actually stated within BFCs accounts as a key risk any changes to the rules which affect the model for "trading player registrations".

In a nutshell, neither BFC or RUFC are truly self sustainable. But, that simply puts them into the same brackets as virtually every other professional football league club.

[animallittle3]

I get what you're saying. Yet dispite this the club made losses in 3 of the last 4 years.

18 - (1.4) / 17 - +3.5 / 16 - (9m) / 15 - (3.5)

It's puzzling at times WanChai I have to say , we don't pay exceptional wages , our transfer budget isn't earth shattering , far more is received than ever goes out in transfers , the record transfer paid out is 22 years old .,
We've seen players leave for £6.5m and replaced for 100k , Roberts went to Brum for £3.5m and Lindsay replaced him at 350k , Hourihane for £3m replaced by Mowatt at 600k .

The books made public carry the minimum amount of financial information that they can get away with legally .

Everything is undisclosed , for what ever reason , loans converted to shares etc etc etc , even the sale of the club was undisclosed , confidentiality agreements on practically everthing the club does financially .

The rent on the ground to BMBC is peppercorn , catering and superstore leased out to private companies .

Tracing the money is difficult to say the least .

Not saying anything is getting done illegally but I ain't half suspicious .

[WanChaiMiller]

Rotherham United need a hotel and business / social units ASAP.

Sadly those who feel that the eyesore adjacent the NYS needs protection are standing in the way of progress for the whole town. Unbelievable considering that the beautiful building that was Doncaster Gate Hospital (paid for with pennies from the Rotherham people) was torn down with great speed.

How do you see the hotel idea working? I thought the council own the land. Will the club have the rights to build there?

[animallittle3]

Its also a risky model. So much so that its actually stated within BFCs accounts as a key risk any changes to the rules which affect the model for "trading player registrations".

In a nutshell, neither BFC or RUFC are truly self sustainable. But, that simply puts them into the same brackets as virtually every other professional football league club.

I think in the light of day that's fair comment and I'm happy to accept that rather than the bankrolled comments .

[WanChaiMiller]

It's puzzling at times WanChai I have to say , we don't pay exceptional wages , our transfer budget isn't earth shattering , far more is received than ever goes out in transfers , the record transfer paid out is 22 years old .,
We've seen players leave for £6.5m and replaced for 100k , Roberts went to Brum for £3.5m and Lindsay replaced him at 350k , Hourihane for £3m replaced by Mowatt at 600k .

The books made public carry the minimum amount of financial information that they can get away with legally .

Everything is undisclosed , for what ever reason , loans converted to shares etc etc etc , even the sale of the club was undisclosed , confidentiality agreements on practically everthing the club does financially .

The rent on the ground to BMBC is peppercorn , catering and superstore leased out to private companies .

Tracing the money is difficult to say the least .

Not saying anything is getting done illegally but I ain't half suspicious .

The books made public are a legal required and signed off by auditors. Tracing money is easy - just not visible to you. Payments may be undisclosed to the public but cannot be hidden within the business.

What you are hinting at is illegal.

[wrinkly]

How do you see the hotel idea working? I thought the council own the land. Will the club have the rights to build there?

You're right. The Council do own the land (purchased in 2010 for 2.6 million)
The club have a very long lease.
From the many statements from the club about developing the site I assume they would have permission to build.

[WanChaiMiller]

You're right. The Council do own the land (purchased in 2010 for 2.6 million)
The club have a very long lease.
From the many statements from the club about developing the site I assume they would have permission to build.

Yes correct. Forgot the lease.

My point really is I not sure what return wed get on a development like this. Wed incure up front building costs. I guess we would lease it out to a hotel chain. Just not sure there is much of a return.

[KerrAvon]

But would a hotel be profitable? How many people want to visit downtown Rotherham?

As for the bar previously suggested by posters on other threads, I would simply point out that pubs and bars are on the decline. With the limited footfall on non-match days, I can't see how a bar at NYS could survive.