OT Italian election

[drillerpie]

Did you actually hear what was said or are you quoting a newspapers account of what was said? Because newspapers always tell it as it is don't they??

Jesus wept.

[drillerpie]

LMFAO, snobhead rules

Stick your fingers in your ears, keep shouting.

Whatever. Italexit is not happening, I've posted a candidate from the party that has just won the elections saying exactly that.

The banking sector collapse you swore would happen never happened either.

There's not much more I can do.

[BigFatPie]

absolutely priceless post. It fact the hypocrisy of it is the stuff of legends.
Your very stance of i'm right and the world is wrong has been breath taking.
1. Won't accept a democratic vote
2. Refuse to believe that others may want more/something different
3. Anyone wanting out is a racist/nazi/xenophobe and on and on.

You sum it up in your last sentence. ****er

qed

[Trickytreesreds]

qed

But then I read forums like NCM and posts like the above and it reassures me that people who broadly hold opposite views and opinions to me are generally halfwits and f00king morons, so it doesn't concern me at all.

QED.

How do you upset a right leaner? - lie to them
How do you upset a left leaner? - Tell them the truth

[tarquinbeech]

Whatever. Italexit is not happening, I've posted a candidate from the party that has just won the elections saying exactly that.

The banking sector collapse you swore would happen never happened either.

There's not much more I can do.

Whichever way you look at it Driller, the Italian result is a continuation of Brexit, Trump, AFD, Austra and Macron~Le Pen in France.

All are a rejection of Traditional Politics....a move away from the Centre Parties or the "expected result"......we could spend hours discussing "but Trump is just a Republican" and "Macron is merely a move back towards the Centre and an alternative to the Far Right".....but all of the above have one thing in common......they were all "shock" results and all were caused by the Average Joe Shmoe saying "eff you, I have had enough"

Had enough of what?......having immigration rammed down our throats? having the 1%ers getting filthy rich while austerity hits the lower and middle~classes? having unelected officials in the EU tell us that more integration and Globalisation is good for us? The US are worried that someone is going to take away their assault rifles?

The list is endless....and the Political World is getting weirder by the day....the old "norms" do not count for anything any more

Trump was funny enough but the next thing is that a country will vote for a "proper Comedian" as leader, now that would be hilarious.....errr, hold on!!

[Mapperleypie]

But then I read forums like NCM and posts like the above and it reassures me that people who broadly hold opposite views and opinions to me are generally halfwits and f00king morons, so it doesn't concern me at all.

QED.

How do you upset a right leaner? - lie to them
How do you upset a left leaner? - Tell them the truth

Damn right, I like to get my news from Breitbart & Russia Today & then I can stick my truth to the lefties & general do-gooders. If only everybody did the same the world would be far less hostile & far better educated.

[drillerpie]

Whichever way you look at it Driller, the Italian result is a continuation of Brexit, Trump, AFD, Austra and Macron~Le Pen in France.

All are a rejection of Traditional Politics....a move away from the Centre Parties or the "expected result"......we could spend hours discussing "but Trump is just a Republican" and "Macron is merely a move back towards the Centre and an alternative to the Far Right".....but all of the above have one thing in common......they were all "shock" results and all were caused by the Average Joe Shmoe saying "eff you, I have had enough"

Had enough of what?......having immigration rammed down our throats? having the 1%ers getting filthy rich while austerity hits the lower and middle~classes? having unelected officials in the EU tell us that more integration and Globalisation is good for us? The US are worried that someone is going to take away their assault rifles?

The list is endless....and the Political World is getting weirder by the day....the old "norms" do not count for anything any more

Trump was funny enough but the next thing is that a country will vote for a "proper Comedian" as leader, now that would be hilarious.....errr, hold on!!

I actually agree with a lot of what you've written, but I'd say it's a trend rather than a revolution though, for the moment at least.

My specific problem with what was being said about Italy and m5s in particular. Their manifesto does address a lot of the points you made but their main focus is not Europe. I was getting a bit fed up of being told they were the Italian UKIP and Italy was turning its back on the EU. It really isn't.

[tarquinbeech]

I actually agree with a lot of what you've written, but I'd say it's a trend rather than a revolution though, for the moment at least.

My specific problem with what was being said about Italy and m5s in particular. Their manifesto does address a lot of the points you made but their main focus is not Europe. I was getting a bit fed up of being told they were the Italian UKIP and Italy was turning its back on the EU. It really isn't.

I might humbly suggest that the wave of "alternative" Parties being voted for, across Europe, the USA voting Trump over Clinton, Putin a shoe~in for his 4th term, Turkey throwing thousands of dissenters in jail, China about to elect a life~time President, Syria bombing civilians at will while the West is sitting watching and even Burma going on an ethnic~cleansing spree......this is more than a "trend" but I agree it is not really a revolution, more akin to a creeping Political distrust......there is something more going on here and I cannot quite put my finger on it.

The ordinary voter has had enough of being conned and is happy to vote for the "tough guy" and see if it works....they have digested all the details of the Panama Papers and know the Elite have trillions squirreled away while they were told to tighten their belts and open their doors to the impoverished of the World....they now know that they were lied to about going to war with Iraq, it was all about oil, so why should they trust the centre Parties?

After the Banking Crisis...only one banker was jailed, in Iceland ffs.....the biggest financial swindle in my lifetime and the taxpayer picked up the tab.....something is wrong.

There is an interesting thread on another forum, entitled "how to stop Corporate Democrats" ie the argument is that Democrats~Socialists are now viewed as Republicans~Tories, but even greedier and corrupt.....so who does Joe Shmoe turn to?....even Noam Chomsky slated the Democrats as the moderate Republicans....read Tony Bliar as the UK equivalent

I cannot recall any country taking a lurch to the left, maybe they fear becoming another Venezuela which was being widely acclaimed as the New Socialist Paradise.....now it resembles a good night out in Raqqa?.....the whole World seems to be moving to the Right, ditching the centre and taking a gamble on the tough guy, comedian or Miss World compere.

[tarquinbeech]

I actually agree with a lot of what you've written, but I'd say it's a trend rather than a revolution though, for the moment at least.

My specific problem with what was being said about Italy and m5s in particular. Their manifesto does address a lot of the points you made but their main focus is not Europe. I was getting a bit fed up of being told they were the Italian UKIP and Italy was turning its back on the EU. It really isn't.

I forgot to address your argument about Five Star and the EU......straight from Wiki....About the politics of the European Union and the Euro, the Five Star movement has often been highly critical, but like on other issues, its position is ambiguous. On 12 June 2014, the M5S having been rejected by both the Greens/EFA,[119] and the ALDE[120] European Parliament groups, offered its activists a limited-choice online referendum to choose a group for the party, in which 78% of participating activists voted for the Eurosceptic Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy ......so they are viewed as Eurosceptic?

Again from Wiki.....In December 2017, the M5S electoral leader, Luigi Di Maio stated that he supported a referendum for Italy to leave the Eurozone and would vote to leave.[126] However, in January 2018 he rejected his previous position,[127] refusing the idea of a referendum on the Euro, which was previously strongly supported by the movement.[128] In February 2018, Di Maio also stated that "European Union is the Five Star Movement's home".[129].....LEAVE is mentioned a few times.

I also checked on their alliance with Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy.....it seems it is led by Sir Nigel Farage?....straight from Wiki again.....n 2017, it was one of the seven political groups of the parliament. This right wing group is opposed to European integration[6]. 24 out of its 47 MEPs were from the United Kingdom. In 2017, the group had two co-presidents: UKIP's Nigel Farage, and David Borrelli from the Five Star Movement[.......On 12 June 2014, the Five Star Movement (M5S) of Italy, having been rejected by the Greens/EFA[9] and Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe[10] groups, offered its activists a limited-choice online referendum to choose a European Parliament group for the party, in which 78% of participating activists voted for the EFD.[11][12]

On 16 June 2014, Dutch MEP Bas Belder of the Reformed Political Party (SGP) moved from the EFD to the ECR group.[13]

The EFD group was reformed on 18 June 2014 with MEPs from existing member parties: the UK Independence Party (United Kingdom) and the Order and Justice (Lithuania), in addition to new affiliates: the Five Star Movement, the Sweden Democrats (Sweden), the Party of Free Citizens (Czech Republic), the Latvian Farmers Union (Latvia) and a French independent MEP, formerly of the National Front.[14][15]

On 24 June 2014, the EFD group name was revised to Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD), and David Borrelli of the Five Star Movement was chosen as the incoming group's new co-president.[16][17

So correct me if I am wrong, Driller.....but according to this 78% of Five Star voters....voted to join an EU Party led by Nigel Farage?

[drillerpie]

I might humbly suggest that the wave of "alternative" Parties being voted for, across Europe, the USA voting Trump over Clinton, Putin a shoe~in for his 4th term, Turkey throwing thousands of dissenters in jail, China about to elect a life~time President, Syria bombing civilians at will while the West is sitting watching and even Burma going on an ethnic~cleansing spree......this is more than a "trend" but I agree it is not really a revolution, more akin to a creeping Political distrust......there is something more going on here and I cannot quite put my finger on it.

The ordinary voter has had enough of being conned and is happy to vote for the "tough guy" and see if it works....they have digested all the details of the Panama Papers and know the Elite have trillions squirreled away while they were told to tighten their belts and open their doors to the impoverished of the World....they now know that they were lied to about going to war with Iraq, it was all about oil, so why should they trust the centre Parties?

After the Banking Crisis...only one banker was jailed, in Iceland ffs.....the biggest financial swindle in my lifetime and the taxpayer picked up the tab.....something is wrong.

There is an interesting thread on another forum, entitled "how to stop Corporate Democrats" ie the argument is that Democrats~Socialists are now viewed as Republicans~Tories, but even greedier and corrupt.....so who does Joe Shmoe turn to?....even Noam Chomsky slated the Democrats as the moderate Republicans....read Tony Bliar as the UK equivalent

I cannot recall any country taking a lurch to the left, maybe they fear becoming another Venezuela which was being widely acclaimed as the New Socialist Paradise.....now it resembles a good night out in Raqqa?.....the whole World seems to be moving to the Right, ditching the centre and taking a gamble on the tough guy, comedian or Miss World compere.

Don't think you can read Putin anything into Putin's impending victory other than the fact that if you control the media and put your opponents in prison you win elections.

Paradise papers was a story broken by a left wing newspaper you profess to hate.

A lot of M5S policies are more left wing than the the centre left parties (free money for everyone for example)