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Thread: O/T Jeremy corbyn

  1. #431
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I appreciate that it suits your argument to use current polling data to try to draw ‘65%’ conclusions from the referendum that took place more than three years ago, but no amount of quasi maths makes it a valid or sensible exercise. Who are you to say that Leave voters were equally spilt between hard and soft? Those terms hadn’t even been coined at that time.

    Maybe the people who voted Leave wanted out and didn’t give much though to how it would happen? I don’t think it remotely safe let alone ‘absolutely’ safe to draw the conclusions that you are doing. I think you doing nothing more than trying to find a basis for what you want to be so and making up the maths to suit.

    The public position of your party time and time again has been that it wants a General Election. Indeed, that is the only clear positon that they have adopted over Brexit. The Great Leader even said it on the day after the European Elections.

    There is no deal that will protect the economy and livelihoods. Leaving means economic disruption. It’s as simple as that, but Leave won. Labour has since been instrumental in preventing the UK leaving on the only deal that is on offer and has punctuated its position with a no confidence vote and repeated calls for a GE.

    Labour went into talks with the government demanding a commitment to a Custom Unions. Setting aside whether that is a good idea (I’d argue that it isn’t a good idea to commit to anything without knowing the price), they knew that May could not agree to it and that even if she did, there was no guarantee that either this or a future Parliament would agree to it. There was certianly no guarantee that a future Tory PM would. I don’t know if it was game playing or just an indication that Labour couldn’t think of anything else to do, but it was always a futile exercise.

    Why are you taking umbrage at ‘activist’? You have told us that you like to get on the knocker to tell people of the happiness that you have found in the words of Jez. You are an activist. It’s nothing to be ashamed of.

    I would disagree that we can’t use current polling data to make at least a plausible argument to what extent people had ‘hard/soft Brexit ideas in mind when they voted. If we accept that we are quite evenly split between Remain/No Deal/Deal at the moment, then we can make sensible estimations/approximations that at the very least indicate that No Deal was not what the majority of voters had in mind/wanted at the point of the referendum. If anything, if you take 48% of the population as already defined as clearly wanting to remain, then you have an X split between the 52% as to people who are fervent No Dealers and those who, on balance, have been persuaded to vote Leave but do not view the EU as the beast that the more extremes do, then I would continue to argue that there never was, and is most definitely a majority consensus for No Deal. It’s as simple as that really. To sit back and say “How can we really know…” is just conveniently copping out of engaging with the question and drawing this obvious conclusion: that there is not, and never was a national majority for a No Deal outcome.

    Of course, we can elect a PM who will try and re-negotiate and antagonise the EU so that they take the decision for us but I think that once that intention becomes apparent, parliament will bring down the government. This should be good news for Labour but if translated into a win despite the split votes (Labour v Lib Dems and Tories v BP) then Corbyn or whomever then face the parliamentary arithmetic issue will be an empty win (from a Brexit end point POV).

    I don’t agree that May couldn’t agree on a compromise arrangement on the CU with labour. It was perfectly within her remit to do so but obviously it would have pissed off a large part of her party. That would be difficult for her but Corbyn is running a masterclass in pissing off large sections of his own party. The only question for me was would the outcome provide a big enough majority to get the amended deal through parliament? The indicative rounds suggested no to a CU, but we’ll never know to what extent there was a genuine attempt to create a CU amendment that could have pulled in the more moderate conservatives if whipped to form a majority. Unlike you, I think that there was a good will attempt from both sides in these negotiations but it was always a long shot. But I wouldn’t agree that this was labour “playing games” or cynically using the Brexit situation as a means to gain power. From my perspective, Corbyn is resisting enormous pressure from the vast majority of (mainly moderates, the ones you would most likely quite like to control the Labour party) Labour MPs and members who want him to switch to supporting Remain right away. His reluctance to do this, to honour the referendum unless all other options run dry, is very likely to bring his overthrow from within the party.

    None of which solves the problem that we have now. I remain in favour of a Deal, and will maintain that as long as there are searches from the new PM, or Corbyn if it eventually falls to him to gain a majority in parliament. I think that the EU will wait on current terms as long as they sense that there is good will to move towards a positive solution.

    I personally don’t mind being labelled an activist. Just unsure as to why you don’t see yourself as one.

    *Note to Grist. I copy/pasted this reply from Viz.

  2. #432
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    May 2008
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    39,318
    I have just read a tweet from Lord Sugar publicly backing Borris Johnson. He says that it's the only way to stop Jeremy Corbyn winning the next election.

    This tweet was challenged by someone who had pointed out to Lord Sugar that only a few weeks ago he had stood in the Houses of Lords and asked for Borris to be jailed for lying to the public during the refferendum.

    Isn't it a shame that Labour peers will do anything to stop Corbyn?

  3. #433
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    I appreciate that it suits your argument to use current polling data to try to draw ‘65%’ conclusions from the referendum that took place more than three years ago, but no amount of quasi maths makes it a valid or sensible exercise. Who are you to say that Leave voters were equally spilt between hard and soft? Those terms hadn’t even been coined at that time.

    Maybe the people who voted Leave wanted out and didn’t give much though to how it would happen? I don’t think it remotely safe let alone ‘absolutely’ safe to draw the conclusions that you are doing. I think you doing nothing more than trying to find a basis for what you want to be so and making up the maths to suit.

    The public position of your party time and time again has been that it wants a General Election. Indeed, that is the only clear positon that they have adopted over Brexit. The Great Leader even said it on the day after the European Elections.

    There is no deal that will protect the economy and livelihoods. Leaving means economic disruption. It’s as simple as that, but Leave won. Labour has since been instrumental in preventing the UK leaving on the only deal that is on offer and has punctuated its position with a no confidence vote and repeated calls for a GE.

    Labour went into talks with the government demanding a commitment to a Custom Unions. Setting aside whether that is a good idea (I’d argue that it isn’t a good idea to commit to anything without knowing the price), they knew that May could not agree to it and that even if she did, there was no guarantee that either this or a future Parliament would agree to it. There was certianly no guarantee that a future Tory PM would. I don’t know if it was game playing or just an indication that Labour couldn’t think of anything else to do, but it was always a futile exercise.

    Why are you taking umbrage at ‘activist’? You have told us that you like to get on the knocker to tell people of the happiness that you have found in the words of Jez. You are an activist. It’s nothing to be ashamed of.


    "There is no deal that will protect the economy and livelihoods. Leaving means economic disruption. It’s as simple as that, but Leave won. Labour has since been instrumental in preventing the UK leaving on the only deal that is on offer"

    You assert this as a fact when it's really only your opinion
    I believe that Labour has been so dithery on just about every Brexit issue
    But reading your post particularly the bit highlighted above I get the impression that you are somehow blaming Labour for our current position
    Make no bones about it the Tory Gov't [you know the strong & stable one] has well & truly made a dogs breafast of the leaving process
    all on its own [most likely by design,[lots of moving parts & all that]
    The reason for our current plight is found at the door of Maybot & her inept Gov't but I can at least understand them [ & you] for trying to shovel the sh1t from their doorstep to any other doorstep they [& you] can

    No defence of Labour here,but really!
    Last edited by Exiletyke; 18-06-2019 at 03:57 PM.

  4. #434
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    Feb 2010
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    4,644
    Quote Originally Posted by frogmiller View Post
    I have just read a tweet from Lord Sugar publicly backing Borris Johnson. He says that it's the only way to stop Jeremy Corbyn winning the next election.

    This tweet was challenged by someone who had pointed out to Lord Sugar that only a few weeks ago he had stood in the Houses of Lords and asked for Borris to be jailed for lying to the public during the refferendum.

    Isn't it a shame that Labour peers will do anything to stop Corbyn?
    Corbyn is a commie, McDonnell is a Marxist, who said just the other day that if they get in power they will support communist Cuba with both financial and political help. No one in their right mind can vote for them.

  5. #435
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    May 2012
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    10,287
    Quote Originally Posted by frogmiller View Post
    I have just read a tweet from Lord Sugar publicly backing Borris Johnson. He says that it's the only way to stop Jeremy Corbyn winning the next election.

    This tweet was challenged by someone who had pointed out to Lord Sugar that only a few weeks ago he had stood in the Houses of Lords and asked for Borris to be jailed for lying to the public during the refferendum.

    Isn't it a shame that Labour peers will do anything to stop Corbyn?
    "I have just read a tweet from Lord Sugar publicly backing Borris Johnson. He says that it's the only way to stop Jeremy Corbyn winning the next election"

    & him from leaving the country.

  6. #436
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    Apr 2019
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    448
    All according to propaganda and fake news.....don't believe the media at all. Research has to be better than simple "Google".

    The tories are a complete shambles and unworthy yet project Corbyn and the followers of Satan reproduce the rubbish as truth. Reading all the rubbish JC wouldn't recognise it was about JC - so outlandish rubbish.

    That's our politics now.....FOX NEWS R US

  7. #437
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    24,672
    Quote Originally Posted by claw84 View Post
    Corbyn is a commie, McDonnell is a Marxist, who said just the other day that if they get in power they will support communist Cuba with both financial and political help. No one in their right mind can vote for them.
    Some of us quite like Marxists, pudding!

    I've heard they do eat babies though!
    Last edited by rolymiller; 18-06-2019 at 04:14 PM.

  8. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolymiller View Post
    Some of us quite like Marxists, pudding!

    I've heard they do eat babies though!
    Wasn't that one of the Labour manifesto commitments? Or was that shagging terrorists?

  9. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyAndEarly View Post
    All according to propaganda and fake news.....don't believe the media at all. Research has to be better than simple "Google".

    The tories are a complete shambles and unworthy yet project Corbyn and the followers of Satan reproduce the rubbish as truth. Reading all the rubbish JC wouldn't recognise it was about JC - so outlandish rubbish.

    That's our politics now.....FOX NEWS R US
    Not sure it was ever much different tbh!

  10. #440
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    Apr 2019
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    448
    The description of the right wingers involved could get really fruity if commies and Marxists are used....Fascist *******s perhaps because the next tory leader should fit nicely into such a regime.....get the army out and start building walls - hang all the alleged bad people and drown those on the dole....then fat people perhaps....

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