Ghost - Leicester Conspiracy

[Kal]

It was on live TV.

[ghostrider]

It was on live TV.

That all depends on how you accept it to be like that. If you think there's nothing untoward about it, then fine. Millions and millions are of the same mind as you.
There's absolutely no need for anyone to question it if they do not have that mind to do that. I simply do.
Each to our own.

[Kal]

Get a helium balloon from the hoppings next week, let it go and see what happens. Felix did the same thing on a bigger scale.

No conspiracy!

[Zippity]

There's absolutely no need for anyone to question it if they do not have that mind to do that. .

Thing is, Ghost, when folk believe something they've been told, read about or seen it doesn't mean they do so because they don't have questioning minds. I agree, there will be loads who do but, at the same time, a lot of people would look at something like that, weigh up the evidence and go 'did that happen? Aye, it did'.

The problem with questioning everything is that, sooner or later you run into people who have an agenda for doubting stuff.

Sometimes it's a desire to not be taken for a fool or a determination not to follow the crowd-both laudable sentiments, in my opinion, but, again in my opinion, there are better ways of setting your stall out. There are the bonkers folk like the flat-earthers who ignore scientific fact?? Then there are folk who are suspicious of everything 'authority' tells us and, increasingly with the way the media is manipulated by governments (or their supporters who control the news organisations) then a bit of scepticism is healthy. But then you get to the darker areas such as 9/11 or, far worse, the holocaust deniers.

Especially with the holocaust deniers, that becomes not only insanely disrespectful to the memory 12 million or more people who died (the 6 million Jews figure sometimes makes folk forget the other millions of Russians, Poles, Yugoslavs, etc who also died) but is also ignoring the mountains of incontrovertible evidence about what happened and gives power to the sort of people -Nazis, Islamic terrorists, etc who would be happy to see such a thing repeated.

Similarly, denying some of the amazing feats achieved by humans...well, it just deprives you of celebrating something positive about our short time here cos god knows there's enough shite to get miserable about. (I hope you don't think this is directed at you and what you do or don't believe, mind, Ghost-just your post set me off thinking along those lines. )

I agree we should be open minded but, sometimes, shit happens.

[ghostrider]

Get a helium balloon from the hoppings next week, let it go and see what happens. Felix did the same thing on a bigger scale.

No conspiracy!

The helium balloon is the least of it all in terms of raising something to a height.
It's about all the rest of it, but it really starts off with Joseph Kittinger in the 50's.

You see, like I said, ,most people don't see any issue because most people just see the feat for what it was shown and told. That's good enough for them and that's absolutely fair enough for me.

The thing with the supposed jump was in the making of it and the talk about vacuums and such and then we have to look at what we were all taught about our spinning Earth and such and marrying stuff up with other feats and sayings by other mainstream scientists....etc.

It's about looking at footage and many other things. It isn't just a case of, " ahhh I don't believe he did it" and that's it. That hold no water at all.

You say no conspiracy and I won't go any further with you. I'll respect your thoughts.
Anyone who's inquisitive may have their own thoughts on it or want to see other musings on it. It can create interest and talking points at the very least.

[ghostrider]

Thing is, Ghost, when folk believe something they've been told, read about or seen it doesn't mean they do so because they don't have questioning minds. I agree, there will be loads who do but, at the same time, a lot of people would look at something like that, weigh up the evidence and go 'did that happen? Aye, it did'.

Absolutely zippity. I understand what you're saying and I agree.
Everyone will have their own views and make their own arguments based on what they believe to be the case.
It's not an easy 1 2 3 argument in any case and nobody has any right to take any more of a high ground if there's no clear facts...yet mass opinion will naturally take the higher pedestal which basically gives many people the mindset of being correct.
It's a natural thing and I wouldn't expect it to be any other way as it stands.

Let's be fair, we're all shepherded throughout life by laws and rules and basic run of the mill tasks and we all generally follow a leader(s) of sorts in whatever shape of form that is.

The problem with questioning everything is that, sooner or later you run into people who have an agenda for doubting stuff.

Agreed once again.
There's the strong martyr type who merely discount anything and everything and then there's those (me for one) who believe nothing and question everything but not let it be anything other than close knit conversation or mere type to create/add to debates, kind of thing.
Then there's those that pick out certain things as being iffy but literally take it in as like a cluedo type scene and quickly get bored of it over a short time.
And obviously those that never see any issues with just about all things.

I'm interested in good theories but I don't just dive into one and go with it. I evaluate them in as much depth as possible to create my own sense of direction towards a theory....which certainly does not make me correct, but it can give food for thought to anyone who cares to partake in that thought. But generally it creates a sort of stand off with most because most people don't like to deal with a person who stands out as a conspiracy theorist...generally changed to nut by media.

Sometimes it's a desire to not be taken for a fool or a determination not to follow the crowd-both laudable sentiments, in my opinion, but, again in my opinion, there are better ways of setting your stall out.

I agree there's better ways. Some go to extremes. Some actually don't help their cause or themselves by getting in the faces of the public or being a street loner looking wacky or acting it.
Sometimes I even wonder about those as to whether they're legit or deliberately muddying the waters.
It's a massive rabbit hole all this stuff and it's generally best to stick to light debates on it like this, which is all I would ever do. I'm not interested in changing anything. It will change or it won't and nothing I say or do will alter it.

There are the bonkers folk like the flat-earthers who ignore scientific fact??

I have to argue this point with you mind.
You see, it depends on what people deem flat Earther's as.
There's many different interpretations of a flat Earth and many actual good points about some of them whilst others seem a bit more outlandish...yet does not mean they're all wrong in all cases. Some could have portions of truth or none can. But then again I don't go with a basic flat Earth...mine is a sort of decaying cell. However even that's crazy to people who believe we walk about on a spinning globe in a space vacuum just as that globe is crazy to me after being indoctrinated into it for a large part of my life.

But also...your last few words on ignoring scientific fact, you have to ask yourself, what is scientific fact when dealing with this type of stuff?
Is it simple adherence to books, tutoring or a stand by acceptance of scientists of old and present who give out stuff as a supposed fact?

Then there are folk who are suspicious of everything 'authority' tells us and, increasingly with the way the media is manipulated by governments (or their supporters who control the news organisations) then a bit of scepticism is healthy.

The thing is, we get told time and time again that, if something is too good to be true, it generally is.
But we also know that the media spin yarns on a regular basis.
We also know governments do.
Businesses do it with insurance and every other money dealers who use you as their perk but are really scamming you.
We get filled with gobbledygook that is so head scratching as to actually mean nothing to anyone but the people who make it up... and yet we're asked to almost worship them for being so clever at knowing this 10 mile long equation which makes their so called scientific theory a fact but never sold as a fact....just as close as with the words "scientific theory."

But then you get to the darker areas such as 9/11 or, far worse, the holocaust deniers.
Especially with the holocaust deniers, that becomes not only insanely disrespectful to the memory 12 million or more people who died (the 6 million Jews figure sometimes makes folk forget the other millions of Russians, Poles, Yugoslavs, etc who also died) but is also ignoring the mountains of incontrovertible evidence about what happened and gives power to the sort of people -Nazis, Islamic terrorists, etc who would be happy to see such a thing repeated.

I have no wish to argue stuff like that because I've never studied it for one and for two it's something that rides on people's emotions to the point of frenzy.
Apparently you can be jailed for denying it. I find that odd but there you go.

Similarly, denying some of the amazing feats achieved by humans...well, it just deprives you of celebrating something positive about our short time here cos god knows there's enough shite to get miserable about.

I agree. Like my wife says...she's just going about life so she doesn't want to worry about what's real or not. She just wants to watch her soaps.

(I hope you don't think this is directed at you and what you do or don't believe, mind, Ghost-just your post set me off thinking along those lines. )

Nope and also I would expect to be drilled for it. I take no offence to anyone who thinks I'm a clown for my belief's or someone who simply wants to put their thoughts against mine, like you. It's all good and can create healthy debate if done right and people don't just jump in with little to say other than insults which add nothing.

I agree we should be open minded but, sometimes, shit happens.

Correct, sometimes tish does happen and I can easily go along with much of it, which I generally do. It doesn't mean I believe it, it just means I'll accept it as being what it is if it doesn't push my interest button hard enough.

I still get along in life and rarely talk outside about conspiracies unless it's a family thing and someone comes up with something at a barbie or whatever.

It becomes more interesting for people who have a mind to dissect some of the stuff. Most have little time for it and I say fair enough to that.

[Jammy89]

Well this thread has advanced significantly further than Leicester

[Sclox]

Its like one if those, you have been in the pub from lunchtime and your mate comes in at 7pm stone cold sober.

You have this conversation which makes total sense to you, he raises an eyebrow, smiles awkwardly, checks the phone then discreetly wanders off to the bar to get away.

[pboromag]

Thing is, Ghost, when folk believe something they've been told, read about or seen it doesn't mean they do so because they don't have questioning minds. I agree, there will be loads who do but, at the same time, a lot of people would look at something like that, weigh up the evidence and go 'did that happen? Aye, it did'.

The problem with questioning everything is that, sooner or later you run into people who have an agenda for doubting stuff.

Sometimes it's a desire to not be taken for a fool or a determination not to follow the crowd-both laudable sentiments, in my opinion, but, again in my opinion, there are better ways of setting your stall out. There are the bonkers folk like the flat-earthers who ignore scientific fact?? Then there are folk who are suspicious of everything 'authority' tells us and, increasingly with the way the media is manipulated by governments (or their supporters who control the news organisations) then a bit of scepticism is healthy. But then you get to the darker areas such as 9/11 or, far worse, the holocaust deniers.

Especially with the holocaust deniers, that becomes not only insanely disrespectful to the memory 12 million or more people who died (the 6 million Jews figure sometimes makes folk forget the other millions of Russians, Poles, Yugoslavs, etc who also died) but is also ignoring the mountains of incontrovertible evidence about what happened and gives power to the sort of people -Nazis, Islamic terrorists, etc who would be happy to see such a thing repeated.

Similarly, denying some of the amazing feats achieved by humans...well, it just deprives you of celebrating something positive about our short time here cos god knows there's enough shite to get miserable about. (I hope you don't think this is directed at you and what you do or don't believe, mind, Ghost-just your post set me off thinking along those lines. )

I agree we should be open minded but, sometimes, shit happens.

regards the jews zippy

do you honestly feel that many died

how would you dispose of so many bodies and where

im not denying it happened it did
but on the scale they want you to believe

could the crematoriams get rid of that many bodies

could teh crematoriums use that much energy in a war where enrgy was at a premium

could it be that a lot of those reported killed or missing actually ended up in other countries poland america italy england even palestine

it happened of that i have no doubt

but i dont agree on the scale of it

but why would we be told it did on that scale

[ashingtoon62]

I know it's the close season but the world cup's on FFS!!
I read half of the first page, is there really such a need to stroke this nutters ego?