O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

[flourbasher]

There are suggestions this afternoon that the EU will not agree to an extension. It wouldnt surprise me as they are probably sick to death of having to deal with Britain,s divisions and are not willing to go through it again.

So if MP,s vote it down then it will be the opponents of BJ that will be forcing us to leave without a deal which will be ironic. God help them when they face the wrath if the public if that happens

[rolymiller]

Well Denmark would accept an extension FB


Nick Eardley
✔
@nickeardleybbc
Danish PM: “Denmark is ready accept another Brexit delay if the new Brexit deal does not get trough the House of Commons" via @GavinLeeBBC

I would think the EU as a whole would accept an extension still clinging on to the hope we might not leave at all. It is in their interest that there is a GE with a new govt put in place who is in favour of staying in the EU. I would be surprised if the EU didn't want an extension.

...and for those who think this deal is gonna be good for the ordinary folk of this country

Keir Starmer
✔


@Keir_Starmer
· 1h
Replying to @Keir_Starmer
Having reviewed what has been agreed, it is clear that the Johnson deal is a far worse deal than Theresa May’s deal. It paves the way for a decade of deregulation. It gives Johnson licence to slash workers’ rights, environmental standards and consumer protections. 3/


...be careful what you wish for...

[sawmiller]

as I said earlier


https://www.businessinsider.com/bori...9-10?r=US&IR=T

[KerrAvon]

Can't really see much difference between May's deal and Johnson's, apart from the Irish Sea border which is huge if you're a loyalist. All other things seem to be some extra barriers to trade and some minor adjustments to terminology but essentially May's deal.

Seems to be more customs barriers on this though with scrapping of commitment to single customs territory- Prices will be hit by tariffs unless they meet "rules of origin" checks.

Interesting that the EU have agreed to 'kick the can' of the 'level playing field' into the political declaration (or FTA as it's now come to be known even though it's the same!) giving the ERG and it's backers the impression that they can strip back on workers/consumer/environmental rights in order to undercut the EU in world trade. However, I'm sure will also mean opposition from Labour even though there is little chance that the EU will make any allowances for this to happen in the FTA. But importantly, it gives the corporate backers the illusion that something might happen to cut back these protections as opposed to it being worded into the WA. So the ERG might back it and see it through.

Same deal as May's though in all but the Irish Sea border (which "No UK PM could agree to" said May!) and making it more expensive to trade in more areas. Just that little bit worse (or appalling if you're a loyalist). Interesting to hear what the anti-BRINO group think?

I see that you have retreated from your parroting of the tin-foil hat wearing, Guardian published, conspiracy theory that Johnson didn’t want a deal.

I would prefer to remain than enter into a Norway style BRINO monstrosity of the type that Labour appears to have in mind (insofar as it is possible to tell), so I will assume that I fit into your anti-BRINO group.

I think the deal is an interesting way of addressing the real issue, which is that Brexit is fundamentally incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) unless and until technical solutions can be developed and/or accepted such as to make it possible for there to be a border on the island of Ireland without any customs checks.

Whilst I have sympathy with Unionists who feel that they are being taken a step away from the union, that sympathy is limited given that the history of Ireland makes for a unique problem that requires a unique solution. Most importantly, however, the notion that the arrangement will be subject to review and renewal by Stormont, brings it in line with the concept of ‘consent’ which underpins the GFA and Anglo-Irish relations. I get that the DUP don’t like that, but nobody can have everything that they want.

Given that you always seem to be so remarkably on message with the Labour Party, can you tell me what their current thinking is on the risk associated with working to vote this deal down? They whipped against May’s reasonably soft deal and now looks set to vote against Johnson’s harder deal, both of which were accepted by the EU only after extensive negotiations. Are they happy to throw the dice and take the risk that the EU states will unanimously agree to extend so that there can be a third bite at the cherry? Bear in mind that the default position is a no deal exit on 31st October.

[KerrAvon]

Well Denmark would accept an extension FB


Nick Eardley
✔
@nickeardleybbc
Danish PM: “Denmark is ready accept another Brexit delay if the new Brexit deal does not get trough the House of Commons" via @GavinLeeBBC

I would think the EU as a whole would accept an extension still clinging on to the hope we might not leave at all. It is in their interest that there is a GE with a new govt put in place who is in favour of staying in the EU. I would be surprised if the EU didn't want an extension.

...and for those who think this deal is gonna be good for the ordinary folk of this country

Keir Starmer
✔


@Keir_Starmer
· 1h
Replying to @Keir_Starmer
Having reviewed what has been agreed, it is clear that the Johnson deal is a far worse deal than Theresa May’s deal. It paves the way for a decade of deregulation. It gives Johnson licence to slash workers’ rights, environmental standards and consumer protections. 3/


...be careful what you wish for...

Denmark? One down and just twenty six to go.

Are you surprised that Keir says that he doesn’t like the deal? He’s a committed remainer and a member of the Labour front bench.

Don’t you think it strange that Keir has apparently given up on the prospect of Labour winning a General Election? That must be the case if he thinks that it will be Johnson at the helm when the UK Parliament decides on workers’ rights, environmental standards and consumer protection.

And what exactly is Labour’s issue with the UK parliament legislating on workers’ rights, environmental standards and consumer protection rather than Brussels? Don’t they trust themselves or is it the UK electorate than they don’t trust? And why do they have such blind faith in the EU that they want that organisation to set workers’ rights, environmental standards and consumer protection for this country without this country having a say? Shouldn’t they worry that the EU might not always be a relatively benign organisation insofar as those issues go?

[rolymiller]

Greetings Mr Kerr. Hostilities resumed I see.

So I take it that you think the EU countries are not bothered whether we stay in or not hence your flippant comment.

I dunno if Labour will be getting into power again or not but their fight for workers rights doesn't end just because they are not in government nor should it... Maybe the EU shouldn't be trusted by Labour to deliver workers rights protection etc but Labour can only do their best to fight for them as an opposition party.

As regards the environmental protection argument. I thought we were a keen environmentalist so why slag off a party that is at least trying to protect the environment...

I have got my tick list ready and bingo card for your very predictable answers...something on the lines of Labour can't and won't do owt reight and can't be trusted..

Cuddles as always

rolykins

[great_fire]

Starmer has already said he won't accept any deal, only Remain is acceptable to him.

As for workers' rights, the Tories are increasing the minimum wage to £10.50 an hour do that just looks like scaremongering.

[rolymiller]

Its vote catching I'll say that...its not just about workers pay though is it?

[animallittle3]

Starmer has already said he won't accept any deal, only Remain is acceptable to him.

As for workers' rights, the Tories are increasing the minimum wage to £10.50 an hour do that just looks like scaremongering.

It will take five years for the tories to deliver that figure of £10.50 ph for the lower paid .

Labour will give them £10.00 ph straight away if elected to government .

The devils in the detail fire !!! .

[MillerBill]

We've got a deal,which is very good for the country to move onwards and upwards.I want to see our MPs up here, pass this through parliament and respect the strong leave vote and put country before politics.