Alternative view of progress

[FindernRam]

OK redid results based on achievement between best outcome and worst outcome.
Nigel 44.5%
Steve 64.6%.

Still can't get a shot of the spreadsheet. Formatting screws up.

[chris311080]

How about swapping things around a bit.

1) What if steve mc came in when Nigel clough did. Would he have been able to stabilise the club both on and off the pitch whilst at he same time maintaining league status

2 ) Would Nigel if he had been allowed to have taken the club to a 3rd place finish last season or if he had taken over the rams when steve mc did would he have had the same impact and still taken the rams up to 3rd place

I'm thinking not on both accounts

Two very different managers who with there strengths and weaknesses worked wonders for derby county

[FrenchTrimmed]

How about swapping things around a bit.

1) What if steve mc came in when Nigel clough did. Would he have been able to stabilise the club both on and off the pitch whilst at he same time maintaining league status

2 ) Would Nigel if he had been allowed to have taken the club to a 3rd place finish last season or if he had taken over the rams when steve mc did would he have had the same impact and still taken the rams up to 3rd place

I'm thinking not on both accounts

Two very different managers who with there strengths and weaknesses worked wonders for derby county

I think you have summed things up perfectly. I am becoming heartily sick of the constant stream of posts trying to slice and dice data in different ways to try and reinforce the poster's personal view on whether or not we have made progress since Nigel was sacked. My own view is simple - if Nigel was still our manager now and we were in the same position as we ar

[FindernRam]

Some of you are attributing agendas to me that are not correct:
I did not set out to fix the figures in any way. I looked at the puzzle of how you could determine a difference in the middle of apparently disparate data. I was just curious about the debate already running. So as a bit of fun I worked from first principles not an end objective. This I have done in my past professional life for many years!
This sort of thing is also done by almost every club in the land to some degree or other. Chelsea, West Ham and other have managers who obsess over it. I suggest it also was part of Derby's thinking in changing manager (obviously I know not what measures they used.
Personally I liked Nigel a lot, a bit worried when he started, and towards the end frustrated by his tactics, slagging players etc. I originally thought the club badly treated him but they obviously did some sort of analysis and were probably correct.
The question is not whether Steve would have done better than Nigel then, o

[chris311080]

I agree with your points and I was of course speaking hypothetically but anything achieved with the current crop of players would IMO be credit to both managers

Ok, say we wasn't promoted within the next season or so but still finished in the play off spots would the average fan say we have made progress.

Looking at a different approach, we lost to Leeds on Saturday under mcclaren. Something I don't remember we did under clough. Is that progress

My point being, can progress be seen differently by different people?

[ramspride]

[quote="Rattea"]Not finding it hard to follow at all I am just pointing out the obvious in consistancies.

Lets look at this a little differently which would you consider the greatest progess regardless of manager.

From relegation possibless under Jewell over spending and massively underperforming to having rebuild from the bottom up scratching around the bargain basement.

OR

Inheriting a club in great financial position and team which largely didnt get changed and reproducing almost the same results they were already getting.


My point being where do you lay the credit for the team that finished third last season. And how would you measure that progress taking into consideration the all the factors to make any.



I still argue the point, none abusively, that I havent been given a measure that shows me from the point McClaren took over there has been any real improvement on all fronts. What has been added to the club that shows this progress as results

[Rattea]

A

OK redid results based on achievement between best outcome and worst outcome.
Nigel 44.5%
Steve 64.6%.

Still can't get a shot of the spreadsheet. Formatting screws up.

Get the spread sheep in screen and do screen print "alt and scr pnt" button usually. Open paint and paste it in there. Trim it and save as a .jpg.

Then go to site below and upload it. It will then give you four ways of uploading it. Copy the one that starts with IMG in square brackets and past it in here. Not in the bottom bit. And post. - view external link

[Rattea]

I agree with your points and I was of course speaking hypothetically but anything achieved with the current crop of players would IMO be credit to both managers

Ok, say we wasn't promoted within the next season or so but still finished in the play off spots would the average fan say we have made progress.

Looking at a different approach, we lost to Leeds on Saturday under mcclaren. Something I don't remember we did under clough. Is that progress

My point being, can progress be seen differently by different people?

Spot on Chris that's exactly what it is. And trying to find and discuss each other's.

Some are relative and some perspective but be good to understand them and watch them.

We could lose and draw more games this year and get automatic promotion in a weaker league. Even tho we got promotion does that mean we have progressed as a club. Depends again on current league or where we are as an overall club. I think the

[FindernRam]

I've got the picture but not sure where to upload it now. I'm not that good with the web!!

PS I don't think that promotion with fewer points indicates a weaker league, just more evenly balanced. The test is what happens after promotion. Something all last years teams are struggling with.

Our test will be Chelsea who are unbeaten in 20 games now (Gulp)

[swaledale]

[quote="Rattea"]Swaledale ... thats been exactly my question to people all along. They have been claiming progress and improvement but based on what ... nothing more than guessing and opinion.

So the questions you have posed you give me an answer because no one else has been able to. Ive been asking the very same questions.

My point has been to even attempt to say that you need a constant/datum/measure and thats what I have tried to apply and what Findern is proposing to apply.

Everyone else has been fingure in the air and guessing with no consistancy.

So how do you answet your questions unless you apply some logic to it?

You've been another on after rapid to admit there no way you can tell at this point if we have progressed or improved. Just the usual we are top ... ask wolves fans after the last few weeks what they thing to this seasons performance so far

[quote="su4eranio"]